discouraged by the TKD community

dvcochran

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I would call that Open Style point Karate, not TKD.

This is a 3 point competition?

You are aging yourself with this statement. Nearly All tournaments, regardless of style, used this similar ruleset and format prior to the Olympic push. There are still many TKD tournaments (ITF, ATA, etc...) that use this format. By no means is it dead.

Seems you are young in your martial arts experience. Not a bad thing, but is certainly invalidates the way you are bashing things.
 

InfiniteLoop

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You are aging yourself with this statement. Nearly All tournaments, regardless of style, used this similar ruleset and format prior to the Olympic push. There are still many TKD tournaments (ITF, ATA, etc...) that use this format. By no means is it dead.

Seems you are young in your martial arts experience. Not a bad thing, but is certainly invalidates the way you are bashing things.
ITF does not use stop format.

As to my experience:
 

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InfiniteLoop

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When I say "origin" I am referring to the pre-unification roots of TKD (essentially karate) being trained and taught for practical combative purposes. It was taught to the Korean and US military in the late '50's early '60's for its effectiveness in combat. Taekwondo was not developed to be just a sport or an acrobatic exercise, it was developed by military men and people of the upper echelon in Korea's political scene to develop fighting ability and refined in combat during the korean war. That is what I mean by combative origin.
Eh, why not just train Karate then? Going back to when it wasn't TKD doesn't make sense.
 

InfiniteLoop

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Ummm am I missing something here? What does a kick have to do with your experience?

Quote: "(you have) better form in jeans than most people in uniforms". I'm guessing experience has something to do with that. I didn't sit on my *** for 7 years.

ITF uses a continuous sparring format, meaning a referee will not step in just because you land a hit. Cochran user is confused.... And TKD free sparring has traditionally always been continuous. The only time they possibly used Karate stop format was when they hadn't invented their own!
 

skribs

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Not caring about gaining new rank I decided to remain independent but had a few students asking about certification from Kukkiwon or ITF for when they left for college just in case their rank was questioned (spoiler, it wasn't).
It is my understanding that if you go to a KKW school, and you're not part of KKW or one of the Kwans, then you essentially have to start your progress at 1st Dan. So if you are a 5th degree in the unaffiliated "Lakewood Taekwondo Academy" (or even if it's part of another organization like ATA or ITF), then you go to a KKW school, they can have you test in as a 1st Dan and start your journey there.
 

InfiniteLoop

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It is my understanding that if you go to a KKW school, and you're not part of KKW or one of the Kwans, then you essentially have to start your progress at 1st Dan. So if you are a 5th degree in the unaffiliated "Lakewood Taekwondo Academy" (or even if it's part of another organization like ATA or ITF), then you go to a KKW school, they can have you test in as a 1st Dan and start your journey there.

In ITF, General Choi felt that a KKW black belt was transferable up until 4th degree. I don't recall if it was including 4th or up to forth but the interview is on Youtube.
 

skribs

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In ITF, General Choi felt that a KKW black belt was transferable up until 4th degree. I don't recall if it was including 4th or up to forth but the interview is on Youtube.
If that's what General Choi said, it makes me think I'm right about KKW. His feelings on inclusiveness were a big reason for his exile.
 

InfiniteLoop

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If that's what General Choi said, it makes me think I'm right about KKW. His feelings on inclusiveness were a big reason for his exile.
His exile was due to treason. His North Korea communication could have been about baseball and he would have still been kicked out.
 
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J. Pickard

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It is my understanding that if you go to a KKW school, and you're not part of KKW or one of the Kwans, then you essentially have to start your progress at 1st Dan. So if you are a 5th degree in the unaffiliated "Lakewood Taekwondo Academy" (or even if it's part of another organization like ATA or ITF), then you go to a KKW school, they can have you test in as a 1st Dan and start your journey there.
That was my understanding as well, but I have a student you got 1st Dan Chung Do Kwan and 2nd Dan through our school alone. He went to UM (michigan) trained with them for a few days and they let him keep his rank and they are purely Kukki/WT sport TKD. The main reason I looked into it was for that reason and I ended up beyond disappointed. My Original instructor got 4th dan through Moo Duk Kwan before switching to Chung Do Kwan so maybe I will look into some MDK groups, they seem to train very similar to how I do based on what I have read in this thread.
 

dvcochran

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That was my understanding as well, but I have a student you got 1st Dan Chung Do Kwan and 2nd Dan through our school alone. He went to UM (michigan) trained with them for a few days and they let him keep his rank and they are purely Kukki/WT sport TKD. The main reason I looked into it was for that reason and I ended up beyond disappointed. My Original instructor got 4th dan through Moo Duk Kwan before switching to Chung Do Kwan so maybe I will look into some MDK groups, they seem to train very similar to how I do based on what I have read in this thread.
A local school allowing someone to keep their rank is very similar to what Skribs described and is not unheard of in every style out there. Especially being at a university, I imagine it speaks as much about the quality of the prior training the person had received more than anything else.
If the person you mentioned can show they received a 2nd Dan Kukkiwon certificate And can look up their information on the KMS that would be a very different situation, but I doubt that very much. There is a shocking number of fake certificates out there.
 

skribs

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That was my understanding as well, but I have a student you got 1st Dan Chung Do Kwan and 2nd Dan through our school alone. He went to UM (michigan) trained with them for a few days and they let him keep his rank and they are purely Kukki/WT sport TKD. The main reason I looked into it was for that reason and I ended up beyond disappointed. My Original instructor got 4th dan through Moo Duk Kwan before switching to Chung Do Kwan so maybe I will look into some MDK groups, they seem to train very similar to how I do based on what I have read in this thread.
I think there's a difference between the local school letting him keep his rank while training there, and him being able to get to 3rd Dan in KKW.

I also think that the original Kwans (which I believe MDK is one) have the ability to do a Dan transfer into KKW, but the various national or local federations do not.
 

Earl Weiss

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ITF uses a continuous sparring format, meaning a referee will not step in just because you land a hit. Cochran user is confused.... And TKD free sparring has traditionally always been continuous. The only time they possibly used Karate stop format was when they hadn't invented their own!
"Traditionally" needs to be defined before anyone can judge that statement. ITF started Continuous sparring in 1974. I have the ITF magazine announcing the "New" format.
 

Earl Weiss

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His exile was due to treason. His North Korea communication could have been about baseball and he would have still been kicked out.
Wrong again. General Choi went to Canada long before he went to North Korea.
 

dvcochran

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Quote: "(you have) better form in jeans than most people in uniforms". I'm guessing experience has something to do with that. I didn't sit on my *** for 7 years.

ITF uses a continuous sparring format, meaning a referee will not step in just because you land a hit. Cochran user is confused.... And TKD free sparring has traditionally always been continuous. The only time they possibly used Karate stop format was when they hadn't invented their own!
Wait a minute; you mean someone can create something and if be their own thing?!? Even when it was being done in other sports or systems?!?
Gee, that sound strikingly familiar.
 

WaterGal

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It is my understanding that if you go to a KKW school, and you're not part of KKW or one of the Kwans, then you essentially have to start your progress at 1st Dan. So if you are a 5th degree in the unaffiliated "Lakewood Taekwondo Academy" (or even if it's part of another organization like ATA or ITF), then you go to a KKW school, they can have you test in as a 1st Dan and start your journey there.

Kukkiwon has had some initiatives to allow people to test for rank transfer from ITF and ATA. I'm not sure if they're still doing that, but they were for a while. But if your certificate is from an unaffiliated school, yeah, you're SOL and have to start at KKW 1st dan.
 

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