Did a little training with Tony Dismukes

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
13,957
Reaction score
4,448
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
So whoever sticks their hand out gets a guaranteed reaction.

Got it.
If you

- put your arms in your opponent's striking path, when your opponent tries to punch you head, his hands have to deal with your arms before he can reach to your head.

- throw a hook punch, either your arm will hit on your opponent's arm, or you will hit into the thin air (when your opponent rotates his arm the same direction as you do). In the 2nd case, if you rotate your hook punch arm into the opposite direction, you will have good chance to wrap your opponent's arm.

Are these just "common sense"?
 
Last edited:

marvin8

Brown Belt
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
429
Reaction score
173
Can you please take the example of Volkanovski's front cut/osoto gari and explain how the techniques you mentioned works better?

Here is your front cut clip.

FUjgpVR.gif
No. You didn't answer the question, "Can you explain how the techniques you mentioned works better?"

This is what I'll do. I won't enter until I feel safe. Not only I try to control my opponent's leading arm. I even use opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm.

You step and kick, I step and punch your face.

jELpp9X.gif
 

marvin8

Brown Belt
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
429
Reaction score
173
If you

- put your arms in your opponent's striking path, when your opponent tries to punch you head, his hands have to deal with your arms before he can reach to your head.
No. The opponent can lead you into emptiness, create an angle and attack you. See OMalley and McGregor KOs and explanations.

- throw a hook punch, either your arm will hit on your opponent's arm, or you will hit into the thin air (when your opponent rotates his arm the same direction as you do). In the 2nd case, if you rotate your hook punch arm into the opposite direction, you will have good chance to wrap your opponent's arm.

Are these just "common sense"?
No, theyre not. It shows a lack of understanding of the various ways an opponent can respond, distance, positioning, timing, fighting principles (e.g., CMA, classics) and concepts.
 
Last edited:

marvin8

Brown Belt
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
429
Reaction score
173
When he moves in like this he is taking the risk. His opponent's free leading hand can punch him. IMO, he doesn't have to take that risk.

How hard can that be if he just guides his opponent's leading arm to jam his opponent's own back arm when he moves in?

No. You didn't answer the question, "Can you explain how the techniques you mentioned works better?"


You step and kick, I step and punch your face.

jELpp9X.gif

If I can control my opponent's leading arm, his leading arm cannot punch me.

No. Again in your post #65, #75 & #82, Can you please take the example of Volkanovski's front cut/osoto gari and explain how the techniques [in your front cut] you mentioned works better?
 
Last edited:

marvin8

Brown Belt
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
429
Reaction score
173
I give up.

We are discussing "the advantage of dealing with opponent's leading arm". We are not talking about the front cut.
So, you give up on discussing your post #65, #75 and my #82? I was interested in your thoughts on your front cut discussion.
 
Last edited:

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
13,957
Reaction score
4,448
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
So, you're give up on discussing your post #65, #75 and my #82? I was interested in your thoughts.
- In your clip, A moves into B before a clinch has been established. If B can move back faster than A, B will lead A into the emptiness - A may kiss the ground.

- In my clip, A has controlled on B's leading arm (clinch has been established). If B moves back, B will pull A with him - both A and B are connected as 1 unit.

Many years ago, I may believe that I can use punch to set up a takedown. One day my friend said, "If I can move back faster than your advance, none of your takedown will work on me." His comment made me to think. I then believed that I should use punch to set up a clinch first. I can then use my clinch to set up my takedown.

I use the same argument on "Taiji push". If I can establish a clinch (such as control my opponent's leading arm), my opponent cannot push me away - because his body and my body are connected.

To use a punch to set up a

- takedown is faster. But if your opponent can move back faster than you, the connection may be broken.
- clinch, and then use a clinch to set up a takedown is slower. But since the bodies are connected, it's easier to change from 1 takedown into another takedown.
 
Last edited:

marvin8

Brown Belt
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
429
Reaction score
173
- In your clip, A moves into B before a clinch has been established. If B can move back faster than A, B will lead A into the emptiness - A may kiss the ground.
No. Again as explained, A (Volkanovksi) uses lateral movement and raises the lead hand (feint) creating the reaction of B to shift his weight to the back foot (double weight), then enters (timing).

- In my clip, A has controlled on B's leading arm (clinch has been established). If B moves back, B will pull A with him - both A and B are connected as 1 unit.
No in post #75 and #82 you step and kick. But again, I step and punch your face.

jELpp9X.gif
 
OP
JowGaWolf

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,834
Reaction score
5,713
I give up.



We are discussing "the advantage of dealing with opponent's leading arm". We are not talking about the front cut.
It's much easier for me to talk about what happens when one doesn't control the leading arm. If I talk about advantages then someone will want me to prove it lol
 
OP
JowGaWolf

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,834
Reaction score
5,713
No. You didn't answer the question, "Can you explain how the techniques you mentioned works better?"


You step and kick, I step and punch your face.

jELpp9X.gif
To be fair that kick is not same kick. Not the same stance. Not the same set up. I had a conversation with Tony about why I prefer to go to the outside. This is why..
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
13,957
Reaction score
4,448
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
It's much easier for me to talk about what happens when one doesn't control the leading arm. If I talk about advantages then someone will want me to prove it lol
Please help me on this. Sometimes I feel I may have some English problem to explain myself clearly. When I say, "If you can control your opponent's leading arm, his leading arm can't punch you." Is this simple logic that difficult to understand?
 
Last edited:

marvin8

Brown Belt
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
429
Reaction score
173
Please help me on this. Sometimes I feel I may have some English problem to explain myself clearly. When I say, "If you can control your opponent's leading arm, his leading arm can't punch you." Is this simple logic that difficult to understand?
Post #70. You posted this gif first. Let me know if you need help in translating or "logic."

No, where is the takedown?

You try to grab my leading arm, I punch your face. "They can do stuff."

Gung-l-I-circular-punch.gif
 
OP
JowGaWolf

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,834
Reaction score
5,713
1Please help me on this. Sometimes I feel I may have some English problem to explain myself clearly. When I say, "If you can control your opponent's leading arm, his leading arm can't punch you." Is this simple logic that difficult to understand?
It's simple to me. I know what you mean and I understand how the lead arm needs to be controlled. But some people choose to just tap the lead hand and they don't seek to control it. I spar with my stronger arm forward o for me it's an active attack or defense. If I spar with my strong arm back then I'm most likely using my left hand to set up my strongest strike. So most likely my left hand is trying to bait my opponent and trying to control the lead hand / arm of my opponent
 

marvin8

Brown Belt
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
429
Reaction score
173
No. You didn't answer the question, "Can you explain how the techniques you mentioned works better?"


You step and kick, I step and punch your face.

jELpp9X.gif

To be fair that kick is not same kick. Not the same stance. Not the same set up. I had a conversation with Tony about why I prefer to go to the outside. This is why..
Both are closed stances (southpaw vs southpaw and orthodox vs orthodox). Both step and kick with the front leg. Either kick can be countered with a side step and rear overhand.
 

marvin8

Brown Belt
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
429
Reaction score
173
"Without block, there will be no clinch."

If you don't...

- change your punch into a grab/pull,

you will never be able to integrate striking art and wrestling art together.
The above two KFW truisms are proven false by Volkanovksi's front cut video,

"Without grabbing and pulling the lead arm, you will get punched."

This truism is proven false by the Volkanovski, O'Malley and McGregor videos.

It's simple to me. I know what you mean and I understand how the lead arm needs to be controlled. But some people choose to just tap the lead hand and they don't seek to control it.
So there is control with contact or without contact. There is a difference in distance, risk, purpose and timing. I explained the principle and concepts. However, one may still not understand without further details. But, that's not necessarily the point of a discussion.

KFW's 1) step 2) kick 3) grab a block 4) switch hands 5) front cut is riskier than Volkanovski's front cut, as shown and explained if you connect the dots. I have never seen anyone block a jab and stand there the way KFW's student does in that demo. The difficulty in entering from range and grabbing a moving opponent's wrist has been covered with Rokas, etc.
 
OP
JowGaWolf

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,834
Reaction score
5,713
Both are closed stances (southpaw vs southpaw and orthodox vs orthodox). Both step and kick with the front leg. Either kick can be countered with a side step and rear overhand.
I must be looking at the wrong clip because what I saw was a front kick to knee and a move to the outside of the lead hand. That second clip was a low kick to the inside of the leg and a move towards the inside.

When the lead leg is kicked out ward like that it opens the gate for punching. Tony and I actually talked about that when I was showing him the long fist punch.

Kicking the knee or the thigh will stop your opponent's forward movement. If the opponent's stands too tall then then the impact will make his leg go back. Tony kicked me in the leg when we trained and both cases happened.

A slapping kick like in that video is not enough to disrupt the punch. This is why Iron broom sweep go through the leg and don't come back.

This is what I saw. Stances were not the same. Front kick stances are actually done from cat stance.
 

Latest Discussions

Top