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Sep 1, 2001
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What's this? An FMA post that is NOT about the Modern Arnis issue? How odd ;)

Anybody have any good resources/advice/tips for training Kali destructions? I really like the concept of them and I'm interested in experiementing with them to see if I want to incorporate them into my training.

having an out of body experience with his GI tract. Ugh.
The easiest destruction you can do is a shield. Find the target on your own body that your partner is attacking and at the last minute place your elbow in the way. Your partner will probably hurt his hand so make sure they have good gloves.

Another one you can try is to parry an in coming straight punch with your rear hand and back fist thier arm with your lead.

Have Fun

:asian: :cheers:

Want More Smiles!!!
Thanks a bunch, Renegade! I've also seen a destruction drill for a jab/cross combo. Basically, the jab is parried or slipped and the cross is guided into your elbow as the elbow is raised.

The one you mentioned where you back fist their arm after parrying their punch sounds similar to a ninjutsu technique, except they step back out of the way and then backfist the nerve group on the forearm or the muscle of the bicep.

When you get good at it put knife in the stiking hand. Hold it back in the icepick position. Your partner will get the point!:cheers:
Hey Gatorade,
What is STIKING hand? Are you all goomed up again?:armed:

play through anytime...............
Bad...pun...killing me...greatest...martial art...techinque...of...all...time...


Some of my favorites are the siko where you allow the opponents fist to run into your elbow. works best with an improved Thai hand placement with elbows in front of the body held high. keeps from shooting in and also alows for the destruction. another is the gunting "scissors" example in left lead parry the right cross with your left hand while punching their bicep with your right. this is taken from kali. the knife but works well with a punch. train with a slap however as it will get old if you hit. this is a .50 cent fan (you have to move your head) :D

Regarding the siko....if you don't parry their fist into your elbow, but allow their fist to hit due to your good hand and arm positioning you will be more effiencient to counter.. Guard has to can't have a boxers guard/stance or a karate mans or a Thai's or yada yada must be a combination of all these things. Hands in motion are ten times faster than hands in a static guard. I have found this works best for destructions.
Remember that destructions are typically not fight enders.. although it can be,... nore often they open a window, if you will, that allows you to apply pressure and terminate the altercation with major tools(HKE) , locks and/or chokes.

Destruction is the entry...
Yeah, I don't look at destructions as a means to end a fight, but they can certainly take the fight out of the opponent. I think they are a good psychological weapon as well. Imagine how demoralizing it must be to break your hand on a punch that you were sure was going to take the other guy's head off.

Sort of a parallel...

Simply grabbing an untrained person's wrist can, in Okinawa-te terms, 'break their mind'. They become so concerned that you've got their arm, that all thought of attack is lost and they just want to get away or are too busy fending off the attacks by your free limbs. I think this is the primary reason why trapping works on people unfamiliar with it. Instead of 'working the problem', their brain locks up and they turn into a punching bag.

I think that's one thing we've yet to really touch on in this board, is the psychological aspects of fighting; tactics, consequences, etc.

I am not sure that grabbing the wrist would in reality have that affect in a real situation... Have you tried it with success ? I believe that fighting is very basic..Train for Bill Goldberg on PCP.
I believe in the fact that most fight last a very short while....Boom Boom and over...that most are uncomitted. and the ones who are are a real handful...Ever grab a 17 year old kid that is determined to harm you...Try to control them...I do this almost weekly with adults in an envrionment where most of the time we can't harm them..again, a handful....The psychological aspects of fighting I think are important to say the least...I guess I believe them to be more important inside us...What are our fears, motivators, weak areas, what lines do we draw. What do we avoid etc...I think it's basic but I have heard many myths being propagated by Instructors that haven't fought or tested what they have said. what do ya think?
I'm sorry, I should have clarified...I meant grabbing the wrist while sparring. Doesn't work for everybody, but I've found it usually works on beginners.

It is true that many instructors have not been in actual street fights. Some are realistic and know from common sense if some techniques are effective or not in real life. Others just teach what they've been taught, ignorant of what can actually happen when the fur flies for real. You get that in all walks of life, though...people who are real good at the theory, but have never applied it.

You know I really think MA is about combat first and foremost. From there a byproduct if you will becomes spirituality. I guess at some point fighting and the consequenses are really no longer a fear and peace can set in. Like ingredients in a have to have them all to have the pie but there are many pies.

I really have no clue where that came from.
must be hungry
That's what I think is the difference between bujutsu and budo. Bujutsu are combat arts, first and foremost, primarily designed for the battlefield. Personal and spiritual development are a sort of byproduct to the physical training.

Budo use physical training to conciously develop the individual. The ability to defend oneself can be a byproduct of budo.

Originally posted by Cthulhu
Budo use physical training to conciously develop the individual. The ability to defend oneself can be a byproduct of budo.

Well said, and I agree. I would allow for a generous interpretation of 'budo' here, that is, in non-Japanese arts there may well be similar distinctions.

I entered the martial arts for self-defense and that was a key requirement for me for some time but that doesn't sustain me after all these years. I am rarely in the way of harm now (where a knowledge of self-defense would help me). The development of character and the other enjoyable aspects of it become more important--one can appreciate the martial arts in the same way one would appreciate ballet (think WuShu). I am still concerned with practicality and self-defense but I don't live in a war zone and don't intend to live as though I do. For those who prefer the continual focus on updating the arts to apply to current situations, I say that's great and again I remain conscious of this. But John Adams said "I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain." I concentrated on self-defense when younger but now I'm ready for some porcelain. Constantly preparing for a possible mugging just doesn't keep me going nowadays.
Originally posted by Cthulhu
I'm sorry, I should have clarified...I meant grabbing the wrist while sparring. Doesn't work for everybody, but I've found it usually works on beginners.

Similarly, if someone unused to using the stick is fighting with it and it's grabbed they will often focus on regaining sole control of it, which may or may not be the best approach (as compared to using it to effectuate a lock or striking the now close-in opponent with the free hand first).

The psychological component is very important--you have to always be thinking of it, I feel.
Bruce Lee once said that when a person (I'm assuming untrained) comes at you with a knife, his mind only allows him that one weapon. However, a trained fighter has hands, feet, elbows, knees, etc.

true and in that sense they have blocked out all else. In a seminar in Calif. a DEA agent spoke of a situation where another agent was in a hand to hand struggle with a suspect. the agent threw a great knee at the groin of the suspect while he was against the wall. the suspect didn't flinch but instead went for the agents gun and they began to fight. a scuffle that lasted I am not sure how long ended with the suspect on the ground mounted on the agent and the agent pulling his weapon firing and hearing a click. The agent then chambered easily as the slide was being held by the suspect and all he had to do was pull the gun back. he then shot and killed him. Throughout all of this not one punch or kick was thrown. That suspect saw a gun and had one get it.

Interesting how the mind works.