Dealing with a school bully

[dleeret]

Last Friday, my 13 year old 7th grade son was bullied at school. Several weeks ago he stumbled upon a fist fight in the boys bathroom and reported it to a teacher. Both boys were suspended. On Friday one of the boys that was suspended cornered my son after class and shoved him into the wall - twice - then punched him in the stomach. My son is a red belt and has been in taekwondo for four years. He can break number 2 pine boards with a variety of kicks, stikes and punches. The bully is only about 10 pounds heavier and an inch taller than my son. BUT instead of defending himself and getting suspended, he stood with his arm down and took the hits. The bully was suspended again and my son was praised by the Dean of Schools for his self control. Most kids don't know he's in TKD - incuding the bully - and the Dean did not know, either (she does now).

I'm certain my son could do all sorts of damage to this kid. He told me it took alot of inner strength to not take the kid out. But even if he simply blocks the attack he will be suspended and it will go on his permanent record. I'm looking for suggestions in case this happens again.

 

[theletch1]

You can check out this thread regarding zero tolerance *spit* policies in schools. You can also do a search of the various forums here using the search terms "bully" and "zero tolerance". There's ton's of info on this site about just this situation. Hope your son comes out alright for this.

 

[jks9199]

Last Friday, my 13 year old 7th grade son was bullied at school. Several weeks ago he stumbled upon a fist fight in the boys bathroom and reported it to a teacher. Both boys were suspended. On Friday one of the boys that was suspended cornered my son after class and shoved him into the wall - twice - then punched him in the stomach. My son is a red belt and has been in taekwondo for four years. He can break number 2 pine boards with a variety of kicks, stikes and punches. The bully is only about 10 pounds heavier and an inch taller than my son. BUT instead of defending himself and getting suspended, he stood with his arm down and took the hits. The bully was suspended again and my son was praised by the Dean of Schools for his self control. Most kids don't know he's in TKD - incuding the bully - and the Dean did not know, either (she does now).

I'm certain my son could do all sorts of damage to this kid. He told me it took alot of inner strength to not take the kid out. But even if he simply blocks the attack he will be suspended and it will go on his permanent record. I'm looking for suggestions in case this happens again.

So, the lesson your son gets to walk away with (fortunately, this time he can walk away) is that bullies get suspended while he gets hurt.

STUPID.

STUPID POLICY.

If it's clear that the kid's being attacked, he should be able to defend himself in a reasonable manner. No, he can't choke a kid out or break a limb for a push... But he should damn well be able to protect himself.

As an alternative to direct counterattacks, throws and evasions can be used "accidentallY" allowing an attacker to injure themselves... Not that I'd ever advocate disobeying a stupid policy like "get beat up or get suspended."

 

[MA-Caver]

First off your son should be (quietly) praised for his willingness to "stand-down" during this type of attack. He knew the consequences of his actions and wisely decided the best course of action was no action. The bully was suspended again and it marks a victory for your son. I bow respectfully to him, and to his teacher and to you sir, for obviously your son has been taught wisdom on confronting someone like this, though he has the ability to "take him out" as you say, he still chose not to.
In my opinion/view he shows a warrior's ability to stay his hand in the face of an inferior opponent.

That kids cannot defend themselves without consequences is a sad state of today's educational world. In my day fights happened all the time but usually the one who "started" the fight (if there were witnesses who spoke up... if any) got the suspension, even if the instigator was the loser of the fight.

I would talk to the principal again and discuss alternatives to the suspension should your son have to face these bullies again... and chances are he will. They DO not go away after a couple "slaps on the wrist" like suspensions. Surely the principal knows this if they have spent any years in the educational mill, they will have seen what bullies are capable of and (probably grudgingly agree that sometimes the best way to handle, curtail a bully is to give them their own medicine).
This is not to say giving him permission to kick the bully's *** next time they're up against each other, but to at least have some measure of strength/skill shown so that the bully will (maybe) realize that "this little dog bites back... and it hurts!"

Or someone else may have a better idea.

 

[Bigshadow]

I won't advise you on how to handle this with your son. However, I will tell you this...

I have told my 13yo son, regardless of the school policies, he is to do only what is necessary to stop the attack and mitigate bodily harm to himself, no more, no less.

When he was little (elementary school) I told him he should tell the teacher and not fight back. In middle school, kids are bigger, stronger, bolder, and are capable of doing far more harm. Regardless, it is my opinion, that everyone is responsible for their own safety. As long as he does ONLY what is necessary, he is not doing anything out of vengeance and can walk away with a good heart and a clear conscious.

Yeah, the school policy says something else and he may have to get punished for defending himself, but IMO a child should not have just take it like innocent sheep.

 

[igillman]

I used to work at a school and almost all of the administrators I met did not like the zero tolerance policy. Fortunately they can hide behind the privacy policy when it comes time to dish out punishment. You will find that if your kid is a good student and the other kid is a known bully your kid can get away with defending themselves. They will pay lip service to the punishment aspect but they do not have to reveal to anybody else what the punishment was for either child.

Principals answer to the superintendent who, in turn, answers to the school board. If the principal gives you hassles then take it up with the superintendent. If they give you problems then take it up with the school board. Just do not take "no" for an answer when dealing with them, anything and everything can be changed given the right incentive.

 

[IcemanSK]

I won't advise you on how to handle this with your son. However, I will tell you this...

I have told my 13yo son, regardless of the school policies, he is to do only what is necessary to stop the attack and mitigate bodily harm to himself, no more, no less.

When he was little (elementary school) I told him he should tell the teacher and not fight back. In middle school, kids are bigger, stronger, bolder, and are capable of doing far more harm. Regardless, it is my opinion, that everyone is responsible for their own safety. As long as he does ONLY what is necessary, he is not doing anything out of vengeance and can walk away with a good heart and a clear conscious.

Yeah, the school policy says something else and he may have to get punished for defending himself, but IMO a child should not have just take it like innocent sheep.

Well said, Shadow.

I think that if your son is comfortable doing what he did, good. If he does anything to protect him in school, he knows he has consequences from the school (despite the fact that he is only defending himself). If there comes a time when he either needs to defend himself against an attack (& get suspended for doing so) or stand there, do nothing, & potentially get hurt- he might make a different choice next time. A perfect attendance record may not be as important to him as protecting himself, next time.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

I agree with Big Shadow on this one. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

My advice is to get on the principal's *** and get this incident and any others documented. show up with police reports so that they know enough's enough and if it happens again it will get serious and there *will* be no repercussions for your son defending himself from here on out.

Get on their *** right now because I guarantee you that little **** and his little pals are not done with your son yet.

 

[terryl965]

I won't advise you on how to handle this with your son. However, I will tell you this...

I have told my 13yo son, regardless of the school policies, he is to do only what is necessary to stop the attack and mitigate bodily harm to himself, no more, no less.

When he was little (elementary school) I told him he should tell the teacher and not fight back. In middle school, kids are bigger, stronger, bolder, and are capable of doing far more harm. Regardless, it is my opinion, that everyone is responsible for their own safety. As long as he does ONLY what is necessary, he is not doing anything out of vengeance and can walk away with a good heart and a clear conscious.

Yeah, the school policy says something else and he may have to get punished for defending himself, but IMO a child should not have just take it like innocent sheep.

I have told my boys just about the same.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

I dont understand, and would welcome explanation btw, how a school zero tolerance policy can overule the law of the land on the right to self defence.

 

[Empty Hands]

But even if he simply blocks the attack he will be suspended and it will go on his permanent record.

Don't fall for the permanent record shtick. I heard that all growing up, and it never stopped me from attending the classes I wanted or applying to college. Getting suspended for a few days for defending himself won't affect your kid's chance of getting to college, and it almost certainly will stop the bullying.

 

[MA-Caver]

I won't advise you on how to handle this with your son. However, I will tell you this...

I have told my 13yo son, regardless of the school policies, he is to do only what is necessary to stop the attack and mitigate bodily harm to himself, no more, no less.

When he was little (elementary school) I told him he should tell the teacher and not fight back. In middle school, kids are bigger, stronger, bolder, and are capable of doing far more harm. Regardless, it is my opinion, that everyone is responsible for their own safety. As long as he does ONLY what is necessary, he is not doing anything out of vengeance and can walk away with a good heart and a clear conscious.

Yeah, the school policy says something else and he may have to get punished for defending himself, but IMO a child should not have just take it like innocent sheep.

Gee, everyone who agrees with you makes me look timid by comparison.
Likewise I agree here as well... but the boy showed restraint and took the hits.
Think about this for a moment. He's a red belt in TKD... he's most likely strong enough and fit enough to take hits from someone who isn't... only the bully didn't know it. Sort of compare it to a wolf biting on a wool covered sheepdog. Just too stupid to realize what might be hiding under that "sheep's clothing."
But yeah, I'm frustrated too at the policies implemented in today's education system, but the key thing is the kid doing what is/was the right thing. The REAL right thing. Not fighting when he could've and done much more damage than could've been done to him. I'm sure that he had an invisible line that in spite of his self-control, and that the bully wasn't (knowingly) crossing it ... maybe toeing the line but he hadn't crossed it. If he had I think the outcome would've been different... vastly different.
Talking with the Dean about this and yes, definitely file a police report.

I don't understand, and would welcome explanation btw, how a school zero tolerance policy can overrule the law of the land on the right to self defense.

Apparently the law of the land doesn't apply to (young) students in public schools. You get some whiny parent of the bully crying out excessiveness or even fully denying the actions of their child and making the defender look guilty. There are certain lawyers who are responsible for this nonsense.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

Apparently the law of the land doesn't apply to (young) students in public schools. You get some whiny parent of the bully crying out excessiveness or even fully denying the actions of their child and making the defender look guilty. There are certain lawyers who are responsible for this nonsense.

Cant say I'm suprised. I wonder what effect the Human Rights Act would have on that over here...

 

[Jade Tigress]

First and foremost, kudos to your son for his self-control and restraint. :asian:

When it comes to bullies, and my son has been bullied plenty, I am of the school to defend yourself. If you always *take it* you will always be bullied.

My son has defended himself in the past and bullies have learned not to mess with him. The difference in situation is, over the years, he's never been caught. If he was, and if he was suspended, I'd live with it. Better he has a suspension on his record than live through a childhood of bullying and fear.

I'm not advocating taking swings at the first sign of bullying. If you can get out of it, do so. The thing about bullies is, they find their targets, those whom they consider weak, and they pick and pick and pick. And then sometimes, a day comes when the bullied has had enough and walks into school on a killing spree.

I support zero-tolerance against bullying, I don't support zero-tolerance against self-defense. I would feel for school staff trying to sort out which is which though.

Once again, I applaud your son. I think he did the right thing first time around. If this kid continued to bully him though, I'd tell him he doesn't have to hold back if he doesn't want to, and that as his parent, I support his right to defend himself. If he chooses not to, that's fine, that's his choice. But I wouldn't want him to *take it* because he's afraid of what will happen if he gets suspended. I think there's more at risk to his psyche in the long run than being suspended would be.

 

[dleeret]

Thanks for everyone's responses on this. As for going on a killing spree, I probably should have mentioned that this school is about 5 miles as the crow flies from Columbine HS. I'm not sure it makes a difference but it hit VERY close to home so our school district is probably a little hyper sensitive on the issue. But the zero tolerance policy doesn't seem to help the problem...

 

[Sukerkin]

Some good points being made by all above.

I am aware that the circumstances and environment are very different from the background I had during my school years but I thought the experiences of someone else who experienced bullying for a while might prove interesting (to show how things have changed if nothing else).

I was brought up in a very religious family and one within which total non-violence was mandated, no matter what the provocation. Now, to my shame, my innate nature is very aggressive and I had to suffer the ironic indignity of my father 'beating fighting out of me'; it took quite a few years but he managed it by the time I reached Secondary School age (that should answer all those supporting a ban on corporal punishment ).

I've told the story in more detail elsewhere a while ago but the upshot is that it took almost no time at all for the local bullies to get around to me; my guess is they were sampling the 'pool' for victims. Given that I had been trained not to fight back but was too stubborn to run away, I had no choice but' Cool Hand Luke' it and keep getting up every time they knocked me down. That won me some 'defenders' from my class mates and altho' it was not the immediate end of the matter, word got around that it was pointless and frustrating to try to bully me because I wouldn't fight and I wouldn't flee.

So returning violence for violence isn't the only way. Now as I said above, I know the world is different now than it was then and what I would term 'moral courage' does not engender the respect it deserves but if your son can handle it, then he does walk a nobler path by keeping his fists down. There's a distinct and important difference between being a victim and controlling your impulses.

As a caveat tho', I have to confess that years later one of my classmates told me that he reckoned one reason why I stopped being hit so quickly was that, besides the bullies being confused by my refusal to stay down, they could also see the 'murder' in my eyes when I got back up .

 

[jks9199]

I dont understand, and would welcome explanation btw, how a school zero tolerance policy can overule the law of the land on the right to self defence.

Self defense is a justification for an act that would otherwise be illegal; you don't really have (unless your state has codified such) a right to self defense or a law that you can use force to defend yourself.

But even if there was such a law, the school is free to be more restrictive in when or how you may defend yourself. They can't be less restrictive; they can't overlook a murder because the victim was a bully, to be extreme, but they can have a rule or policy at the school that anyone and everyone involved in a fight will be suspended. In theory, they could have a policy so restrictive that even simply standing there and being a punching bag is considered "involved" or "participating" and the victim gets suspended! (That's the heart of "zero tolerance" policies; we don't tloerate ANY of that behavior.)

It's also to important to understand different levels of sanctions. There is criminal law; violate those, and you get punished as prescribed by the law. Examples might be 5 to 20 years for robbery, 5 days in jail and a $150 fine for trespass, or a $35 fine for running a stop sign. But an employer, business, or anywhere else can have their own rules and policies, too. So, your employer might suspend you for a week if you get a speeding ticket, or a mall might prohibit children under 16 without an adult, and kick them out. Or the school might decide that any student involved in a fight, or possessing any knife -- even a steak knife to cut his lunch -- is suspended.

 

[Kacey]

As others have said, your son did exactly what he should do - and I say that as both a school teacher and a TKD instructor (and as an aside, I'm wondering who your son's instructor is - I know several in that area). However, also as a teacher and a TKD instructor, I will also say that, should this idiot of a bully try again, your son should block... and, if that is insufficient, he should do the bare minimum necessary in terms of counter-attacks to defend himself.

I am also trained as a school guidance counselor - and unless your son gets expelled (and sometimes not even then) he will be given the opportunity to explain why he was suspended... if any prospective colleges even look at his cumulative record beyond checking his grades. I'm not saying that he should go out and beat the crap out of this bully (although it sounds like the bully deserves it) - but neither should he let fear of what is in his cumulative record prevent him from defending himself using the minimum force necessary.

Please let us know how it goes from here.

 

[Jade Tigress]

As others have said, your son did exactly what he should do - and I say that as both a school teacher and a TKD instructor (and as an aside, I'm wondering who your son's instructor is - I know several in that area). However, also as a teacher and a TKD instructor, I will also say that, should this idiot of a bully try again, your son should block... and, if that is insufficient, he should do the bare minimum necessary in terms of counter-attacks to defend himself.

I am also trained as a school guidance counselor - and unless your son gets expelled (and sometimes not even then) he will be given the opportunity to explain why he was suspended... if any prospective colleges even look at his cumulative record beyond checking his grades. I'm not saying that he should go out and beat the crap out of this bully (although it sounds like the bully deserves it) - but neither should he let fear of what is in his cumulative record prevent him from defending himself using the minimum force necessary.

Please let us know how it goes from here.

Great post Kacey. You pointed out better than I about using the minimum force necessary. I didn't say it point blank but I was thinking it. I just assumed you all were mind readers! lol

Always start with the minimum necessary. If that doesn't work, it's step two, and so on. I'm NOT advocating beating the crap out of someone, that's not "self-defense".

:asian: