Lynne
Master of Arts
If someone had done that to my daughter, I would be going to prison for a long time...for premeditated homicide. I believe that is how I would react. No way to know for sure of course.
Conviction on cyberbullying case ... thoughts?
- Thread starter shesulsa
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OP
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If you created a clever disguise for yourself - pretended to be a completely different gender, age with a completely different intention ... and prodded someone into self-destruction WITH THAT BEING YOUR SOLE INTENT FROM THE START ... what would you call yourself?
The adult woman did not go over to that girl's home as herself, she did not represent herself with honorable intentions - she deliberately disguised herself, befriended, seduced and ultimately bullied and destroyed that girl and it was her intention to do so from the very beginning.
There are newer laws on bullying in some states though it appears to be more of a local thing where they do exist and in some of those cases, if the bullying leads to the death of another then it qualifies as manslaughter.
I think the woman should be committed to an asylum for the criminally insane and let some doctor **** with her head. THAT would do justice by her victim.
That's why I said that this is one of the few times that I think technology has enabled a new sort of crime. This couldn't have happened face-to-face; the girl would have known she wasn't talking to a boy. I don't think it would have had the same effect were it merely passing notes or sending letters, either. There's an immediacy and an intimacy to communicating via text/IM on the internet that's lacking -- while there's still a frightening anonymity, too.
It would still have been wrong even if the girl hadn't killed herself. Let's say that rather than goading her to suicide, the woman had led her on that they were going to go to prom, and she bought a prom dress, etc., spending huge sums of money (as most proms today involve). I don't think anyone would laugh and say it was a good joke; I think most people would be in favor of making the adult pay some sort of fine or restitution.
IMO, its got more to do with the fact that this was a grown woman, who joined in with her child in tormenting another child. What kind of adult does that? I read in todays paper where 2 highschool girls were having issues, so one of the girls mothers goes to the school and with her daughter, tracks down the other girl and helps to beat her up.
Yes, I would say charges of harassment and possible threatening would apply.
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
Helluva question. I have an addendum to it. Would this crime or misdeed have been committed without the Internet? It's much easier for the cowardly and creepy to function from behind a keyboard then out in the open.
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Thats an excellent point.
Would this have been committed without the net? Absolutely. Bullying is nothing new, its been happening for years. Like you said, the only difference here, is the accused hides behind the computer vs. face to face.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #29
That was my point - it likely wouldn't have been done in public because she's a middle-aged woman and it would be difficult for her to disguise herself as a teenage boy and toy with her. But if she did and worked the girl up into such an emotional state that the girl committed suicide, would she not then be charged with aggravated assault leading to death by way of mental anguish?
Exactly. The prosecution here wasn't predicated on the use of a particular technology. But it's a fact that without that technology, the nature of the fraud she perpetrated would have been much harder to duplicate IRL. Either way, it would be a matter of legally indicting mental cruelty and harrassment, with plenty of malice aforethoughtbut we're much more likely to see this in cyberspace than anywhere else, given the nature of what's required to pull something like this off.
aedrasteia
Purple Belt
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It would still have been wrong even if the girl hadn't killed herself. "Let's say that rather than goading her to suicide, the woman had led her on that they were going to go to prom, and she bought a prom dress, etc., spending huge sums of money (as most proms today involve). I don't think anyone would laugh and say it was a good joke; I think most people would be in favor of making the adult pay some sort of fine or restitution."[/quote]
i wish that were true. Nope - it would be spread over the net - or videoed and posted to Youtube or staged for an episode of Punked.
Visible, shared 'cruelty-for-fun'. needs an audience. gets an audience.
the better organized, staged, believable and outrageous the con, the more popular and more shared... 'you've got to see _this_'. Can you top it?
its a challenge lots of people can't resist. Having an overblown 'reason' for revenge/payback is the cheap justification - when it results in harm the perp can't dismiss or when the 'audience' recoils/creeps out, the perp gets confused but can't feel sorrow or repentance, after all, she/he says they 'didn't intend' the bad outcome. except thats exactly what they intended, they just wanted envy and applause too.
the law struggles to create a commensurate legal response. people can create a 'social' response. Shunning seems good.
maybe adding a quiet comment upon meeting this woman ' what a horrific act you did', said softly, no drama, no grand-standing. i witnessed that done by a person toward an individual under a similar situation. The responder followed by leaving the social occasion where the perp was present, made no scene whatsoever, no self-righteousness. i was young and floored by the older woman's integrity and backbone. I think even (*or especially) Miss Manners would approve.
we aren't helpless when we refuse to be the compliant audience for cruelty.
i wish that were true. Nope - it would be spread over the net - or videoed and posted to Youtube or staged for an episode of Punked.
Visible, shared 'cruelty-for-fun'. needs an audience. gets an audience.
the better organized, staged, believable and outrageous the con, the more popular and more shared... 'you've got to see _this_'. Can you top it?
its a challenge lots of people can't resist. Having an overblown 'reason' for revenge/payback is the cheap justification - when it results in harm the perp can't dismiss or when the 'audience' recoils/creeps out, the perp gets confused but can't feel sorrow or repentance, after all, she/he says they 'didn't intend' the bad outcome. except thats exactly what they intended, they just wanted envy and applause too.
the law struggles to create a commensurate legal response. people can create a 'social' response. Shunning seems good.
maybe adding a quiet comment upon meeting this woman ' what a horrific act you did', said softly, no drama, no grand-standing. i witnessed that done by a person toward an individual under a similar situation. The responder followed by leaving the social occasion where the perp was present, made no scene whatsoever, no self-righteousness. i was young and floored by the older woman's integrity and backbone. I think even (*or especially) Miss Manners would approve.
we aren't helpless when we refuse to be the compliant audience for cruelty.
Outstanding post.
We've indeed succeeded in creating a cannibalistic popular culture, where people are carved up and served up to the voyeuristic sadism of a lot of bored people stuck in tedious lives. And that tendency, which starts off with relatively harmless airhead fluff like People magazine, winds up on the dark side with the kind of thing you're describing here: anything to get attention, no matter how vicious. There are quite a few people out there who probably envy this monstrous woman's fifteen minutes of sleazy 'fame'...
Bodhisattva
Blue Belt
I live close to this story.. about 15 minutes away via highway.
I have to say that I think that woman is a despicable, sad example of a human being.
I also have to say that we have all probably done some rather petty things in our time.
I don't think you can lay a person's suicide at the feet of anyone person.
We really like to hand out blame.
I think she did something disgusting. I am not sure she deserves prison.
A person's suicide has many, many factors.
It is a very personal choice.
This one woman was not the cause.
She was just a nasty, disgusting final straw.
Life is hard.
Our culture is cold.
Yup. I'm not sure she committed a crime and I think they've found her guilty of tangential matters...but it was certainly a cruel thing to do.
But outlawing impersonating people on the Internet could have far-reaching consequences that we might not all be happy about.
SA_BJJ
Blue Belt
I agree, it will be difficult to charge her with anything, but she should be tortured for long painful periods of time.
Isn't it illegal for someone over 21 to try and seduce a 13 year old?
The only way it could have happened face-to-face would be if a 3rd party was involved. What if the woman had instead orchestrated a complex scenario that involved hiring out a young male actor from a local studio and contracting him to pose as the new boy in town and carry out the same actions? I doubt that would be dismissed as "just bullying", yet the woman online is essentially accomplishing the same ends with the fake identity.
