Conditioning skin (yes skin) for fighting and getting hit

[lklawson]

I rather spend more time training, make the bones and joint stronger

That's fine. That's a choice you make for you and I doubt anyone will try to talk you out of your decision for you.

than fighting a losing battle to prevent scratching the skin.

Who says it's a "losing battle?" There are definitely things which will make the skin tougher and less likely to be scratched or draw blood. Just because you may not feel that it's worth the effort doesn't mean it's a "losing battle." (or does it mean that you don't know what those things are?)

I don't think being butt kicked is any better than pathogens.

You feel that an hepatitis, HIV, or syphilis infection isn't any worse than getting "butt kicked?" umm... A long-term-to-incurable blood-born, potentially fatal disease is no better or worse?

I mean, look, if you want to argue that acquiring a blood-born infection from a skin cut during a fight is a statistically low risk, then I won't argue that. But when you say "who cares about cutting or scratching..." or "it's a losing battle" to toughen skin, then there are factual issues with the statements. Neither of those are true.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Dirty Dog]

I rather spend more time training, make the bones and joint stronger than fighting a losing battle to prevent scratching the skin. I don't think being butt kicked is any better than pathogens.

You've obviously never tried to keep someone from losing their hand after a fight bite.

 

[drop bear]

If you want to spend your training time as efficiently as you can. Strength and cardio is where I would suggest you put the most effort.

 

[Alan0354]

You've obviously never tried to keep someone from losing their hand after a fight bite.

Can you avoid losing hand from skin training?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Can you avoid losing hand from skin training?

Anything that reduces the number of open wounds being exposed to nastiness is good.

 

[Alan0354]

Anything that reduces the number of open wounds being exposed to nastiness is good.

Can you avoid open wounds by this kind of training? How much time it takes for the training? If you have limited time, is it better off training to win the fight?

BTW, all the talks, anyone seriously going to train OR been training this already? Or is this just talk for the sake of talk and arguing?

 

[lklawson]

Can you avoid open wounds by this kind of training?

It can reduce the chances.

How much time it takes for the training? If you have limited time, is it better off training to win the fight?

It depends on which ones. Some of the old-school boxing techniques for skin toughening take negligible time; as in less than a minute on an occasional basis. Some take even less. A few take more. Some of the oriental "body hardening" techniques take a significant investment in time, training, and even materials.

BTW, all the talks, anyone seriously going to train OR been training this already? Or is this just talk for the sake of talk and arguing?

I have, in fact, tried some of the old-school boxing methods.

 

[Alan0354]

It can reduce the chances.


It depends on which ones. Some of the old-school boxing techniques for skin toughening take negligible time; as in less than a minute on an occasional basis. Some take even less. A few take more. Some of the oriental "body hardening" techniques take a significant investment in time, training, and even materials.


I have, in fact, tried some of the old-school boxing methods.

Like how to train?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Can you avoid open wounds by this kind of training?

You can reduce the number and size of wounds. Target selection also helps. For example, punching someone in the mouth is an absolutely stellar way to get a truly nasty infection.

 

[lklawson]

Like how to train?

Training, techniques, and skin toughening.

 

[Alan0354]

Training, techniques, and skin toughening.

Specifically how to train the skin that you talked about, I want to know the method. Like your old school boxing method for skin.

 

[Alan0354]

......................

 

[Alan0354]

You can reduce the number and size of wounds. Target selection also helps. For example, punching someone in the mouth is an absolutely stellar way to get a truly nasty infection.

How do you train your skin, that's the question. Punching the mouth is a different subject regardless. How do you train the skin so it won't get cut.

 

[lklawson]

Specifically how to train the skin that you talked about, I want to know the method. Like your old school boxing method for skin.

There are multiple methods. Most of them revolve around toughening the knuckles, some of which I tried. This includes using Camphor Ice on skinned knuckles (Dempsey), rosin, or even an herbal lineament recommended by Bob Fitzsimmons which included Laudanum.

The methods you are most likely interested in "wash" the skin to be toughened periodically in various period products. Which one is recommended depends on the author. One author recommends diluted tanning solution. Another recommends "pickling brine." One American Revolutionary War era recipe makes a paste from salt and Apple Cider Vinegar. There's even a lost recipe referred to as "Tom Sayer's brew of turps, whiskey vinegar, horse radish and saltpetre." There is even some very old material that recommends using urine. In all of these cases that we can be certain of the ingredients, it always comes down to a very mild acid such as dilute vinegar. Tanning solution has Tanic Acid. Real "pickling" brine develops Lactic Acid through fermentation such as traditional sauerkraut/pickes/kimchee/etc. (modern shelf-stable pickled products typically use Acetic Acid). And, of course urine contains Uric Acid.

The effect of using these mild acids on the skin is to cross-link the collagen, which makes the skin leathery and tough, flexible but inelastic (bends but won't stretch), at least according to Dr. Keith Myers.

From what I can tell, the Lactic Acid and the Tanic Acid preparations were probably the most common. The Lactic Acid because fermented pickling was one of the most common ways to extend the shelf life of food until very recently and was easily available to, literally, everyone. And the, the Tanic Acid seems to have been common; one writer (ims) tells us that you can tell who was a professional boxer because they toughed the skin of their face with Tannin in order to reduce facial cuts and, in the process, stained their face a chestnut brown. And using mild acid (mild enough that you can drink it safely) seems to have been a short-term or "only occasionally" treatment. Just enough to cross-link the collagen, not enough to cause scaring from acid burns.

There was a thread here on MT some months ago where most everyone, including the OP, misunderstood what "brine from a salt-pork pickling barrel" was. Everyone thought it was super-saturated salt solution; i.e.: what we now think of as "brine." The OP took a lot of criticism and ridicule based on everyone's mistaken belief of what "brine" was.

The question is not "does this work." It absolutely does make the skin tougher, more leathery, and resistant to cuts and scrapes. Nor is the question, "will this take a lot of time, dedication, expensive ingredients, and require the supervision of a trained master?" The question is, "is it worth it?" If you are toughening the skin of your face, is it worth it to have tannin stained skin or to smell like sauerkraut brine? It was more than enough of an edge for professional athletes in the 19th Century. For modern amateurs and self-defense minded folks with a real 9-5 job? Well, maybe saurekraut isn't the best cologne.

Would these washes work on you to toughen the skin on your chest, arms, face, or hiney? Yes. Is it worth it to you? I don't know. Your call.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[wolfeyes2323]

This applies to the unexposed areas of body that are naturally covered most of the time

So the underarms, obliques and chest

I'm not unfit but not ripped either

If i stand up and ready myself for a hit yes then I can take it, but that's not the issue

The issue is when in a relaxed postion. Yes it's baby skin so to speak and never saw to much sun or whatever but it actually undoes the good work I do with my training

Its like this, slap the watch facing side of your arm.
Now slap the opposite side.

Notice the difference (I hope you do)

Now like i say if im sitting there not expecting it and i get hit in any area like this my eyes would water like a baby

Preferably looking to do something i can do myself. I know you could get something to slap a much as possible but not wasting other people's time

Your body fears pain, even a little pain,
it will become stronger to avoid it.
Correct conditioning involves introducing your
body to small level of pain and over time ,
increasing the pain level as the body becomes
stronger and learns to tolerate it.
The biggest mistake people make is going too fast,
going for high levels of conditioning to soon,
causing bruising , and nerve damage, unnecessarily,
the same benefit can be gotten from small pain
levels slowly increased.

 

[Dirty Dog]

How do you train your skin, that's the question. Punching the mouth is a different subject regardless. How do you train the skin so it won't get cut.

You don't. You condition the skin to reduce the chances of it being damaged and reduce the severity of damage when it does occur.
Not the same thing at all.