Common expressions that are wrong....

Dirty Dog

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Honestly, the only nfa item I would be interested in owning is a suppressor. As you stated earlier, machine guns are fun to shoot, they are also expensive to feed, especially for someone like me.
Very true. A psychiatrist buddy of mine (since passed) had a whole bunch of full-auto weapons, and a place on his property where we could shoot them. You can run through LOT$ and LOT$ of ammo really quickly. And hit nothing with most of the rounds. Burst fire is also fun, and far more practical.

Suppressors are excellent. In the event that you ever need to protect your home, you're not going to be wearing ear protection. There's no reason you should be forced to go deaf to stop a home invasion robbery. They also improve the speed and accuracy of follow up shots, by decreasing muzzle flip.

I think something like the Maxxim 9 would make an ideal bedside gun, or duty gun for LEO's.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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Very true. A psychiatrist buddy of mine (since passed) had a whole bunch of full-auto weapons, and a place on his property where we could shoot them. You can run through LOT$ and LOT$ of ammo really quickly. And hit nothing with most of the rounds. Burst fire is also fun, and far more practical.

Suppressors are excellent. In the event that you ever need to protect your home, you're not going to be wearing ear protection. There's no reason you should be forced to go deaf to stop a home invasion robbery. They also improve the speed and accuracy of follow up shots, by decreasing muzzle flip.

I think something like the Maxxim 9 would make an ideal bedside gun, or duty gun for LEO's.
In doing a little looking it appears that suppressors are flat out prohibited for non LEO California residents. Even the gun trust websites say its a no go. Seems odd that one can apply for and get an SBR or SBS or AOW but not suppressors. Even a title 2 or 3 could eventually be had given the correct set of circumstances. Ah well, maybe Santa will bring a gun trust to put in my stocking next year, Im tired of coal.
 

Dirty Dog

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In doing a little looking it appears that suppressors are flat out prohibited for non LEO California residents.
Last time I checked, 38 states allow them. I can still have mine in CA, I'd just have to keep it locked away. Federal law prohibits state laws from stopping me from having the item in my possession while traveling. They can only prevent me from using it. Or if I took up residency in CA, which isn't going to happen.
Even the gun trust websites say its a no go. Seems odd that one can apply for and get an SBR or SBS or AOW but not suppressors. Even a title 2 or 3 could eventually be had given the correct set of circumstances. Ah well, maybe Santa will bring a gun trust to put in my stocking next year, Im tired of coal.
The laws do not make sense because they were written by people who don't know anything about the subject.

The Colorado law restricting magazines to 15 rounds does not apply to magazines owned prior to the bill. Because, according to the author, you will shoot the rounds in those magazines and then they will be gone. Because apparently, in her world, you cannot reload a magazine.

[Edit] I just checked. 42 states allow individual ownership of suppressors.
 

Dirty Dog

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On a side note, it's probably worth mentioning that the Hearing Protection Act, first introduced in 2015, was reintroduced in 2021. The aim of the bill is to remove suppressors from NFA coverage. Because ultimately, all a suppressor does is protect your hearing and potentially improve your aim on follow up shots. Both of which are unequivocally good things.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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On a side note, it's probably worth mentioning that the Hearing Protection Act, first introduced in 2015, was reintroduced in 2021. The aim of the bill is to remove suppressors from NFA coverage. Because ultimately, all a suppressor does is protect your hearing and potentially improve your aim on follow up shots. Both of which are unequivocally good things.
While I joke about suppressors being the assassin tool, I probably shouldnt because people really think it is. The other notable plus is subsonic rounds not over penetrating and ending up in valuable items or creatures. Its laughable when people talk about using a shotgun with 00 buck in the house. After cutting down the burglar, the neighbor, the neighbors dog, and your corvette in the garage turned veranda, you will die from smoke inhalation. Apparently, John Wick has smokeless shotgun ammo to go with his bullet proof suit.
 

GojuTommy

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Good heavens!


So if youre wealthy, you can own a machine gun (in some states)? Astonishing! Surely the poor should be able to strafe their neighbourhoods with bullets just like those in佞...Malibu (thats where Charlie Harper lives, isnt it?).
Yep the rich can own nearly whatever they want.

 

GojuTommy

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Not true. Owning a item covered by the National Firearms Act (NFA) is not all that difficult for law abiding citizens.

The NFA regulates ownership of shotguns with an overall length of less than 26" or a barrel less than 18", a rifle with an overall length less than 26" or a barrel less than 16", weapons capable of automatic fire, suppressors, and explosive devices.

The process is simple and straight forward. It's time consuming, because it involves multiple government agencies. I've made a detailed post about the process elsewhere. The short version is that you buy the item and it sits at the FFL dealer while you do paperwork. You get a signature from your local sheriff or judge, send that with more papers to the ATF (along with $200), they forward part of it to the FBI for the background check, and when it's all done they send it back with the tax stamp.


Not true at all. The tax stamp costs $200, which is not prohibitive at all for the vast majority of people. Especially when you consider the other costs. My bedside gun is a Glock 41 with TrueGlow sights, TLR-4, Pyramid trigger, Lone Wolf extended/threaded barrel, and a SilencerCo Osprey 45. So I've got about $2000 invested in the hardware. That $200 is no big deal

Also not really correct.

Automatic weapons are divided into two categories. Pre- and Post-1986 manufacture.

The road to owning a Pre-1986 weapon is the same as any other NFA device. Buy it. Add one more form for a "Curios & Relics" collector license. Get the tax stamp. Take it home.
These weapons are scarce, and collectible. That drives up the price. A full-auto pre-1986 AR-15 might well cost you $30,000. That won't really buy you much car, and certainly not much of a house.

Or you can spend $150 for a three year Class I FFL. Pay an additional $500-$1000 per year to upgrade that to the Class III FFL SOT. Now you can buy a brand new full-auto AR-15 for $1500.
$200 is very restrictive for most people, seeing as most people these days dont have $500 on hand for emergencies
So yes $200 in general is pretty restrictive for most people, let alone the price for the actual item in question. Owning an NFA regulated item is extremely uncommon.

A new Honda Civic costs about $25,000
While Im not sure how much a Sherman or a 76mm howitzer costs Id be surprised if it was less than $100k

Your posts on this subject just shows your how privileged and out of touch you are with the average American.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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$200 is very restrictive for most people, seeing as most people these days dont have $500 on hand for emergencies
So yes $200 in general is pretty restrictive for most people, let alone the price for the actual item in question. Owning an NFA regulated item is extremely uncommon.

A new Honda Civic costs about $25,000
While Im not sure how much a Sherman or a 76mm howitzer costs Id be surprised if it was less than $100k

Your posts on this subject just shows your how privileged and out of touch you are with the average American.
owning an NFA regulated item is extremely uncommon This is patently untrue. The ATF keeps records. Look them up. in the last 6 years alone nearly 10,000,000 applications were processed. Your posts on this subject show how ignorant and out of touch you are with the average available statistics. Edit: over 10,000,000 NFA firearms processed From 2015 to 2020.
 
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Dirty Dog

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So yes $200 in general is pretty restrictive for most people, let alone the price for the actual item in question.
NFA items are not exactly daily staples. Few people, if any, absolutely need them. if you're spending money on luxuries, $200 is not much.
Owning an NFA regulated item is extremely uncommon.
Sure. But I think that it's more reasonable to interpret the reason for that as "not want" rather than "can't". Most gun owners don't have any particular desire for NFA items. So they don't have them.
A new Honda Civic costs about $25,000
As I said, not much car. The average price for a car sold in the US is about $48,000.


While Im not sure how much a Sherman or a 76mm howitzer costs Id be surprised if it was less than $100k
Irrelevant, since what you claimed was that an automatic weapon would cost as much as a house.

A fighter jet will cost even more than a tank, just FYI. Or you could buy an aircraft carrier...

But even that can be done for waayyyyyyy less than the cost of a house. Or a new car.
$0.01 for an air craft carrier. That's quite a bargain!
Your posts on this subject just shows your how privileged and out of touch you are with the average American.
At least I can compose a coherent English sentence... :)
 

GojuTommy

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How many of those are
owning an NFA regulated item is extremely uncommon This is patently untrue. The ATF keeps records. Look them up. in the last 6 years alone nearly 10,000,000 applications were processed. Your posts on this subject show how ignorant and out of touch you are with the average available statistics. Edit: over 10,000,000 NFA firearms processed From 2015 to 2020.
Lol assuming that each one of those is an individual and not multiple applications from a single person, that equates to less than 1/7th of total gun owners that is uncommon.
 

GojuTommy

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NFA items are not exactly daily staples. Few people, if any, absolutely need them. if you're spending money on luxuries, $200 is not much.

Sure. But I think that it's more reasonable to interpret the reason for that as "not want" rather than "can't". Most gun owners don't have any particular desire for NFA items. So they don't have them.

As I said, not much car. The average price for a car sold in the US is about $48,000.



Irrelevant, since what you claimed was that an automatic weapon would cost as much as a house.

A fighter jet will cost even more than a tank, just FYI. Or you could buy an aircraft carrier...

But even that can be done for waayyyyyyy less than the cost of a house. Or a new car.
$0.01 for an air craft carrier. That's quite a bargain!

At least I can compose a coherent English sentence... :)
I never said an automatic weapon would cost as much as a house I said many NFA regulated weapons could cost as much of a house.

As far as the car stuff a Honda Civic is plenty of car, I dont really know what youre trying to prove there.
 

Dirty Dog

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I never said an automatic weapon would cost as much as a house I said many NFA regulated weapons could cost as much of a house.
It must be tough when you can't even remember what you said. Here. I quoted it for you.
A legitimate machine gun or sub machine gun will cost about as much as a new car, or a even a small house.
This claim turns out not to be correct.
If you want a collectible antique machine gun, you might pay $30,000. Which isn't going to buy you a house. The average home price in the US is currently about $350,000.

As far as the car stuff a Honda Civic is plenty of car, I dont really know what youre trying to prove there.
You can buy a 1987 Yugo for $100. The fact is the average new car purchase is about $48,000. Because most people do not want a stripped down, bare bones, entry level car. That average is far more than the $1500 or so you can spend on a brand new full auto weapon. In point of fact, that average car is enough to buy 32 $1500 full auto weapons. So I am not "trying" to prove anything. Your claim is wrong. That's proven.

If you want to compare prices, it's foolish to compare the price of the cheapest piece of junk used car you can find (the Yugo) with a brand new full auto weapon (a full auto AR-15).
Average price for a new car in the US is about $48,000. Your entry level stripped down Civic is $25,000.
Average price for a brand new full auto Colt AR-15 is about $4000. An off brand is $1,500.

Average price for a collectible 1940's era machine gun is about $25,000.
You can't really establish an average price for a collectible car, because their condition varies so widely. You can buy a something like this:
1670551063611.png

that will require a full frame off restoration and will never be numbers matching for $10,000.
On the other hand, one of the 7 1970 Hemi 'Cuda convertibles will set you back about $2,500,000.
A top notch replica of a 1963 Shelby Cobra can easily run $150,000. A numbers matching original Shelby will be right at $2,000,000.
And you will have trouble finding anyone who will even guess a price for the one and only 1983 Corvette in existence.

In no valid comparison is your claim correct. Deal with it. You screwed up. Now move on.
 
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GojuTommy

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It must be tough when you can't even remember what you said. Here. I quoted it for you.

This claim turns out not to be correct.
If you want a collectible antique machine gun, you might pay $30,000. Which isn't going to buy you a house. The average home price in the US is currently about $350,000.


You can buy a 1987 Yugo for $100. The fact is the average new car purchase is about $48,000. Because most people do not want a stripped down, bare bones, entry level car. That average is far more than the $1500 or so you can spend on a brand new full auto weapon. In point of fact, that average car is enough to buy 32 $1500 full auto weapons. So I am not "trying" to prove anything. Your claim is wrong. That's proven.

If you want to compare prices, it's foolish to compare the price of the cheapest piece of junk used car you can find (the Yugo) with a brand new full auto weapon (a full auto AR-15).
Average price for a new car in the US is about $48,000. Your entry level stripped down Civic is $25,000.
Average price for a brand new full auto Colt AR-15 is about $4000. An off brand is $1,500.

Average price for a collectible 1940's era machine gun is about $25,000.
You can't really establish an average price for a collectible car, because their condition varies so widely. You can buy a something like this:
View attachment 29376
that will require a full frame off restoration and will never be numbers matching for $10,000.
On the other hand, one of the 7 1970 Hemi 'Cuda convertibles will set you back about $2,500,000.
A top notch replica of a 1963 Shelby Cobra can easily run $150,000. A numbers matching original Shelby will be right at $2,000,000.
And you will have trouble finding anyone who will even guess a price for the one and only 1983 Corvette in existence.

In no valid comparison is your claim correct. Deal with it. You screwed up. Now move on.
Weird my 5k sq ft house cost $145k and my first house in 2015 cost $89k almost like your claims about averages dont matter.

Your insistence on obsessing over minutiae is really weird.
Point being NFA items are not common in America, and getting one is prohibitively expensive.
None of this however has anything to do with the topic at this point any more.
 

Dirty Dog

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Weird my 5k sq ft house cost $145k and my first house in 2015 cost $89k almost like your claims about averages dont matter.
Apparently you live in an economically depressed area. I'm sorry.
But, see, I can see where you're posting from. And the median price for a home there is about $340,000. So I think there might be some BS in your statement.
But even if you are telling the truth, $90,000 is still triple what a collectible full auto gun will sell for, and 60 times more than a brand new budget full auto weapon. So your claims would still be nonsense.
Your insistence on obsessing over minutiae is really weird.
The devil is in the details. And wrong is wrong.
Point being NFA items are not common in America,
This is true, but not for the reasons you've claimed.
and getting one is prohibitively expensive.
This is completely untrue, as has been demonstrated.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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NFA items are not exactly daily staples. Few people, if any, absolutely need them. if you're spending money on luxuries, $200 is not much.

Sure. But I think that it's more reasonable to interpret the reason for that as "not want" rather than "can't". Most gun owners don't have any particular desire for NFA items. So they don't have them.

As I said, not much car. The average price for a car sold in the US is about $48,000.



Irrelevant, since what you claimed was that an automatic weapon would cost as much as a house.

A fighter jet will cost even more than a tank, just FYI. Or you could buy an aircraft carrier...

But even that can be done for waayyyyyyy less than the cost of a house. Or a new car.
$0.01 for an air craft carrier. That's quite a bargain!

At least I can compose a coherent English sentence...
How many of those are

Lol assuming that each one of those is an individual and not multiple applications from a single person, that equates to less than 1/7th of total gun owners that is uncommon.
Let me help you through this difficult time. Reading is fundamental to understanding, so lets start there before we get to arithmetic, er math. The post said from 2016 to 2020. There were years before that, and after that too. At the end of the post, there was an edit. That edit noted that the stat was for firearms processed, not applications. While it may be that some individuals own more than one of the firearms in question, each application represents a single firearm.
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GojuTommy

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Apparently you live in an economically depressed area. I'm sorry.
But, see, I can see where you're posting from. And the median price for a home there is about $340,000. So I think there might be some BS in your statement.
But even if you are telling the truth, $90,000 is still triple what a collectible full auto gun will sell for, and 60 times more than a brand new budget full auto weapon. So your claims would still be nonsense.

The devil is in the details. And wrong is wrong.

This is true, but not for the reasons you've claimed.

This is completely untrue, as has been demonstrated.
Youre about 100k off on the average home cost here.

Enjoy your life, not sure what hole in your life youre trying to fill right now, but I hope you fill it some day.
 

Tez3

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Not difficult for people with military knowledge of firearms.
I was a navy gunners mate, and was in charge of my ships armor, which included maintaining all the small arms as well as my 25mm guns, and I can tell you most people with military knowledge of firearms have no clue how to convert a semi-sear into an auto-sear, me being one of them.
In UK military it's usually armourers who work on weapons.





I didnt realise that each state has it s own, differing laws! Just like Europe!

No it's nothing like Europe which is a continent containing nearly 50 different sovereign countries.
 

Dirty Dog

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No it's nothing like Europe which is a continent containing nearly 50 different sovereign countries.
As compared to the USA, which is a continent containing 50 sovereign states. You might be surprised how much difference there is from one state to another. For example, there are plenty of things that are illegal in A, but perfectly acceptable in B. Things like suppressors, marijuana, magic mushrooms, abortions, or even carrying a couple of sticks.
 

Tez3

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As compared to the USA, which is a continent containing 50 sovereign states. You might be surprised how much difference there is from one state to another. For example, there are plenty of things that are illegal in A, but perfectly acceptable in B. Things like suppressors, marijuana, magic mushrooms, abortions, or even carrying a couple of sticks.
Ukraine is in Europe, you don't have that for a start. The countries in Europe are very different from each other, you are all Americans but each European country is their own nationality of course. It's more than laws or customs that make countries different.
The continent of North America though includes Canada which is not the US
 

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