Wish I could join, but I am in the UK, got to get a new passport lol. At some point this year, probably late summer, maybe in to Autumn, I want a proper holiday this year, I reckon the seminar would be a good holiday, with some keen interest too!
Combat Jiu-Jitsu with Matt Bryers
- Thread starter Matt Bryers
- Start date
Wish I could join, but I am in the UK, got to get a new passport lol. At some point this year, probably late summer, maybe in to Autumn, I want a proper holiday this year, I reckon the seminar would be a good holiday, with some keen interest too!
Martial - pertaining to war/combat/struggle. Art - human expression or skill not otherwise designated as a science. People come to various "martial arts" for a variety of reasons but let's not confuse what martial arts are. If someone implies martial arts are anything different than what they are then maybe they're using the wrong choice of words. What Matt here is doing is doing, ie his school is doing, is synthesizing a variety of martial arts in effort to create an effective modern combat system. That sounds like it fits the bill to me.
I have to question anytime someone states matter of factly what is traditional Japanese. My first question is always how much time they've actually lived in Japan and not just read books/watched movies on them. Traditions in Japan last just as long as they do in the US, UK, etc. Ie until someone decides to change them. The "traditional Japanese arts" are just as muddled, cross-bred, and morphed as any "modern" art.
I have to question anytime someone states matter of factly what is traditional Japanese. My first question is always how much time they've actually lived in Japan and not just read books/watched movies on them. Traditions in Japan last just as long as they do in the US, UK, etc. Ie until someone decides to change them. The "traditional Japanese arts" are just as muddled, cross-bred, and morphed as any "modern" art.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
You will probably want to start a new thread on that.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Ha, you have no idea… honestly, I've been rather gentle and subtle so far… well… for me, anyway…
Honestly, Matt, I think we got off on the wrong foot, for a few reasons. One being that either I'm not expressing myself properly, or that you're simply not getting what I'm actually asking… this is really a case in point here.
You teach an art that is promoted as "traditional", and "Japanese jujitsu"… but you don't care much about Japanese arts? Or traditional ones? Or history? To the point that you can't even get the relevance, or understand when, or why, you're being asked about them? It's not about knowing more about such aspects… it's that they are integral parts of what Kobukai claims to be. To not have an interest is to not have an interest in your own art… and, honestly, the only thing that leads to is people who similarly don't "care" about such aspects being taken in by frauds, liars, and BS artists. By not caring, you're opening yourself up to such… as well as risking being labeled as one yourself (note: that is not what I'm doing here).
This is where I'm coming from, really. I mean, I can tell you flat out that parts of your lineage are very much fraudulent, and based on the work of people who had no actual background in what they claimed at all. Now, this isn't a comment on yourself, or your instructor (well… not entirely), but it is to show that knowing history and what you're talking about can be vital in these areas.
Sure, and I haven't had any problem with that, nor have I called any of it into question. I've asked about the history of Kobukai Jujitsu, and I've asked about it's credibility as pertains to being presented as a "traditional" or "Japanese" art. Constantly telling me what your emphasis, or focus is, while all cool, really isn't related to anything I've asked about. Which is why I'm suggesting that you simply haven't understood what I'm asking, or why.
So, you're happy to talk about some areas, but not about the actual art you're teaching? The one you presented in the video in the OP?
I'm not bent on proving you wrong, Matt… frankly, I don't think you're educated enough in this area to be "wrong"… simply ill-informed. If anything, I'm aiming to get you to look past what you think you know, and embrace a wider understanding… and, while that might seem confronting (or confrontational), it's not intended that way. I do have concerns when you feel that being asked about the background of the art you yourself have come here to discuss makes for a "weird discussion"… but, as I said, I feel this is either because you don't know (the aspects that I'm talking about, what traditional arts are actually like, what a Japanese Jujutsu system is like etc), or because you don't want to admit that the art you study isn't actually either. Because, really, there's no other option here. You started a thread specifically about this system, not everything else you teach at your academy, and I've asked about it only… which seems to have highlighted a range of issues in the background of the system… to the point that you've tried to confuse the issue by bringing in many areas that simply aren't related (what your training approach is, what other arts you teach and train, what your focus is), and going to that old stalwart of a non-argument of "well, what does it matter, what I does works!".
None of that is anything I asked about. If you feel it is, please quote and highlight my question where I asked about such things.
It's more than that… it's that we're coming from completely different perspectives and understandings of these things.
That said, I do feel we got off on the wrong foot… it came across to me that you felt I was denigrating your system and your school (and, by extension, yourself), which is not the reality at all… in fact, I've said that it looks like a good, solid school, and that I have no issue with what you're doing, as well as pointing out that it not being traditional, or Japanese ins't a slight at all… all in all, I've made 5 or 6 positive comments about what you do (from what I've seen)… the only thing I've asked about is the history. I would ask you to look back over the thread to confirm that, if you have any doubts.
Mike, I've never suggested otherwise.
Here's where we get into the issues, though… define "BS" being taught… is it just sub-par methodologies, or is it also to do with false claims and misrepresentation? I haven't had any issues with Matt's methodologies… I have, however, questioned the representation and claims of what exactly the art is.
That's the thing, Mike, the answers weren't "fine"… they were unrelated to the questions that were being asked.
Is lineage a small issue? Really? So, if someone with absolutely no connection to any BJJ system, but instead watched a bit of UFC, and did 6 months of karate, made the claim that they were a Gracie black belt, as they were a good naturally gifted fighter, that'd be fine because they could fight?
Lineage is not a small issue. BudoSeek Martial Arts Community - The Importance of Paper
Yeah, again, it's an individual thing, and also down to the system itself. Bluntly, the idea that "martial arts are about fighting" is firstly a flawed concept (as, as I've said many times before, "fighting ain't fighting"… there are many different contexts and forms of fighting, and different arts will deal with different approaches and contexts themselves), and secondly, largely said by those who do modern, dominantly eclectic systems, as well as sporting ones. From my perspective, it's an amateur and beginner mindset that's being expressed there.
The other thing I'd point out is that I'm not talking about the persons' reasons for training… that might indeed be "to learn to fight", "self defence", or anything else… I'm talking about the actual arts themselves. And no, at their core, many arts aren't really about "fighting"… that's just how they give you what they're actually about. If you choose to argue that, please explain to me how Kyudo is "about fighting"… explain to me Katori Shinto Ryu's dictate to members not to engage in any type of fighting…
Hang in there Matt. Despite stuff like this, this forum really is a good place.
Mike
I'll second that I hope Matt sticks around… I feel he can add a lot of value in a number of areas. But I do also feel that this isn't a "poor example" of the forum, and what can happen here… I don't feel that anything I've asked is out of line, or inappropriate. But hey, you have my contact details if you want to bring anything up with me privately, here or on FB.
The question of what Matt's doing isn't an issue… yeah, it really does come across as a modern, Western synthesis of a number of different systems… the question is whether it is what it's presented as ("traditional, deep roots in Japanese Jujutsu" etc).
If you want to question them, the question isn't "how much time has been spent in Japan", it's "how much time has been spent in traditional Japanese arts"… which is a bit different. I know of a number who have been in Japan for years, but not exposed to any real understanding of traditional Japanese arts… and a number who have never been who have a very good understanding of such.
Yeah… I don't think we're talking about the same thing.
One more point, this one for Steve.
Steve, you "disagreed" with my post number 10? Can I ask what exactly you disagreed with? I mean… that post was commenting that Matt didn't actually answer what I was asking… so if you could let me know what exactly you disagreed with, it'd be interesting… I mean, the entire post consisted of my pointing out that my questions weren't answered, and clarifying my take on "traditional"… I really can't see how that can be disagreed with… PM is fine, if you want.
OK.
Really? LOL, I think it's safe to say that we both know what I'm talking about, but for the sake of discussion: let's see...mcdojo's, people who make up their own art, people who claim multiple high ranks in multiple arts, people claiming no touch KO's. I mean really Chris, all it takes is a look through some old threads on this forum and a search on you tube, and, well, you know what I mean.
OK. Well, Matt apparently thought they were fine, I thought they were fine, but apparently they weren't.
LOL, actually we need to look no further than the Buj itself. We both know all the controversy that revolves around that art. Yet those same people that train it, swear that all is legit. My point, and probably Matt's point too, is that sure it is important, but harping on it like what's happening here? That proves what?
Ky d - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Hey, I wasn't even thought of when that art was around. Did it serve a purpose back then? Maybe. Does it serve one today? Some things are done simply to honor tradition. But who is going to fight with a bow and arrow today?
OK.
OP
OP
Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
No way in hell I'm reading all that. From skimming:
If your ultimate question is "Is Kobukai Ju-Jitsu" a traditional Japanese Martial Art that was practiced in the Samurai ages.... then no. But I'm glad it's not! I tried in many different Jiu-Jitsu schools before KJJ and KJJ was the only one where I experienced students and instructors that knew their stuff.
Lastly, you state that you have no issue with me, but it comes off quite different. You sound very arrogant, and like you're trying to prove something. Kinda annoying.
In this particular thread, I am done having a discussion with you.
- Yes I care, I explained before, just not my focus. What I teach I am sure is vastly different than previous "generations". But still using the "framework" of JJJ.
- Yes lineage is important, I posted my lineage above, but have trained with many MMA fighters / grapplers who are extremely talented, but would have no clue where their art came from. So if you're using lineage as your way to "validate yourself". Cool. I'd rather prove it.
If your ultimate question is "Is Kobukai Ju-Jitsu" a traditional Japanese Martial Art that was practiced in the Samurai ages.... then no. But I'm glad it's not! I tried in many different Jiu-Jitsu schools before KJJ and KJJ was the only one where I experienced students and instructors that knew their stuff.
Lastly, you state that you have no issue with me, but it comes off quite different. You sound very arrogant, and like you're trying to prove something. Kinda annoying.
In this particular thread, I am done having a discussion with you.
OP
OP
Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
Oops, forgot Drop Bear.
Here's one from December. You'll see me on the left (starting the camera).
Also, check on the nice slam off the wall by our wrestling coach about a minute in.
Here's one from December. You'll see me on the left (starting the camera).
Also, check on the nice slam off the wall by our wrestling coach about a minute in.
OP
OP
Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
Not necessarily sparring, but a 2 vs 1 drill we do in Defence Lab (I'm the one getting hit). Plus, I just think the gopro makes it look cool!
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Chris, I disagreed because I thought Matt answered your questions and you said he didn't. You didn't like his answer, which is not the same thing. Once again, I think some consideration regarding opinions and facts would be helpful.
Must I agree with everything you write?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Must I agree with everything you write?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Hey matt, I loved the stuff in your other two vids and some of the drills you're talking about doing, but this one confused me a little. Whats the actual point? To just learn how to optimize your guard and movement so as to not get pummeled to much? Or was there more to the drill that just got cut off by the Go pro? I'm only asking because when we've done 2 v 1 at me school, be it for our SD or our free sparring we teach to step out and start throwing punches/kicks/etc. so you're basically able to block the second guy with goon #1 until either help arrives or you knock out the first guy. Obviously the quick KO is the goal, but things tend to not go as planned in SD lol
But we're a striking style, so our methodology is gonna be pretty different. I was just curious as to what the point of that drill in that video because it looked like you just took a beating, but it was also only 30 seconds long lol
OP
OP
Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
Yea the point is really to learn to "optimize your guard" and for me to have fun with the gopro
We do this for beginners to get comfortable getting hit and realizing that you can defend yourself against a barrage of strikes.
But it's just fun too!
Our sparring in DL is similar to MMA, but also against multiple opponents. I don't have any video of that yet.
We do this for beginners to get comfortable getting hit and realizing that you can defend yourself against a barrage of strikes.
But it's just fun too!
Our sparring in DL is similar to MMA, but also against multiple opponents. I don't have any video of that yet.
OP
OP
Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
I'm a huge fan of it. Very easy to use. I have the hero 3+ so I can use my phone as a remote and viewer. Great to mount on the wall, on a person, or just on a tripod.
Sounds like your students are lucky to have you sharing your experience, passion, and methods. Sounds like a good program. Welcome to Martial Talk.
Regards
Brian King
Regards
Brian King
ATTENTION ALL USERS:
MartialTalk has a strict policy on fraudbusting in order to prevent heated discussions like has happened here. We welcome and encourage civil and positive discussion of different arts and their history, but must insist on mutual respect in those discussions, but neither MartialTalk nor its Staff or members are in a position to serve as arbiter of other arts.
jks9199
Administrator
MartialTalk has a strict policy on fraudbusting in order to prevent heated discussions like has happened here. We welcome and encourage civil and positive discussion of different arts and their history, but must insist on mutual respect in those discussions, but neither MartialTalk nor its Staff or members are in a position to serve as arbiter of other arts.
jks9199
Administrator
OP
OP
Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
Cool to hear! Myself and my team have been working on something for 9 months. We're hoping to release the first part in early February.Well I for one have enjoyed Matt's vids. I eagerly await a series I hope
OP
OP
Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
Thanks Brian!
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