Close them Off vs. Open Them Up

JP3

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Generalized You vs. Opponent scenario, terrain is open and not an issue.

What is your tactical preference between the two choices of:

A) Closing the opponent off from you, meaning you are trying to get behind one of his arms so that you are directed "at" him/her, while he/she is pointed "away" from you; or

B) Opening them up, i.e. getting in between their arms, in the interior position so that you may easily attack their front centerline?

Which do you prefer and why? Oh, and by the way, how do you like to put that into play?

Thanks. Minor research project.
 

CB Jones

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Lot of variables?

Left/right handed?

What is his money punch? Straight right/left hook/roundhouse kick/etc...

Grappler?
 
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J

JP3

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Lot of variables?

Left/right handed?

What is his money punch? Straight right/left hook/roundhouse kick/etc...

Grappler?
OMG dude, really?

Fine. Here are some specifics so you can go all "Lab" for me.

He's 5'11" and 200 lbs, you know he's got some BJJ but think it's not So good, but you know he's both been in karate for maybe 8 years and has done some amateur boxing with his dad, who used to be really good, when he was a teenager. He's about 32 now and got in a fight with his wife and headed out to the bar to seek out a fight and you happen to run into him in the parking lot and you decided you didn't like his face so now it's "on."

That help?

So, oh wait, he's right handed but because of his dad's influence he prefers to fight southpaw.

So, are you going to get into some theory for me to pass the time or not? Sheesh.... c'mon man.
 

CB Jones

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OMG dude, really?

Fine. Here are some specifics so you can go all "Lab" for me.

He's 5'11" and 200 lbs, you know he's got some BJJ but think it's not So good, but you know he's both been in karate for maybe 8 years and has done some amateur boxing with his dad, who used to be really good, when he was a teenager. He's about 32 now and got in a fight with his wife and headed out to the bar to seek out a fight and you happen to run into him in the parking lot and you decided you didn't like his face so now it's "on."

That help?

So, oh wait, he's right handed but because of his dad's influence he prefers to fight southpaw.

So, are you going to get into some theory for me to pass the time or not? Sheesh.... c'mon man.

I sneak up and hit him in the back of the head with a cue stick........Boom, Jones-itsu-who-hit-u strikes again
 

CB Jones

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OMG dude, really?

Fine. Here are some specifics so you can go all "Lab" for me.

He's 5'11" and 200 lbs, you know he's got some BJJ but think it's not So good, but you know he's both been in karate for maybe 8 years and has done some amateur boxing with his dad, who used to be really good, when he was a teenager. He's about 32 now and got in a fight with his wife and headed out to the bar to seek out a fight and you happen to run into him in the parking lot and you decided you didn't like his face so now it's "on."

That help?

So, oh wait, he's right handed but because of his dad's influence he prefers to fight southpaw.

So, are you going to get into some theory for me to pass the time or not? Sheesh.... c'mon man.

Ok, seriously

I like a southpaw stance myself and like working to my right away from his power hand (right hook Im assuming) behind a stiff right jab using my height advantage.
 
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JowGaWolf

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He's 5'11" and 200 lbs, you know he's got some BJJ but think it's not So good, but you know he's both been in karate for maybe 8 years and has done some amateur boxing with his dad, who used to be really good, when he was a teenager. He's about 32 now and got in a fight with his wife and headed out to the bar to seek out a fight and you happen to run into him in the parking lot and you decided you didn't like his face so now it's "on."

That help?

So, oh wait, he's right handed but because of his dad's influence he prefers to fight southpaw.
8 years of karate doesn't say much. You can only factor that he knows how to punch and do higher than waists kicks. If he know BJJ then that's going to be an issue. You should be able to tell which system he favors by the way he stands. Grapplers and Strikers move differently, they move according to either striking or grappling. Different footing and stances are need to execute different strikes and certain grappling entries. If he got into a fight with his wife to come after the me then I'm going to use my ability of conversation to bring up how women are a pain in the neck. I'm going to do my best to turn my possible fight night into a vent about women night. I weigh 200 pounds and train regularly. If I saw someone else who weighs as much as I do, then I'm going to assume that they don't train as much as I do. This would give me an opportunity to use my endurance to my benefit. If I can keep my distance then I may be able to wear him down. If I'm a butt then my first goal is to affect his mobility right away with a couple of mean strikes. Once I put a dent in his mobility then I'm going to affect his breathing a little more. If I can impair his ability to be efficient in those 2 areas then I win the fight provided that he doesn't have a gun or some other weapon.

The boxing would probably be the biggest issue but that can quickly be address by attacking a person's mobility. I can fight right or left so it doesn't matter what stance a person is in or what stance I'm in. The level of damage that I would cause will depend on how much danger I think I'm in.
 

Buka

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Standing - B. Unless or until A presents itself.
Downed - A
 

gpseymour

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Generalized You vs. Opponent scenario, terrain is open and not an issue.

What is your tactical preference between the two choices of:

A) Closing the opponent off from you, meaning you are trying to get behind one of his arms so that you are directed "at" him/her, while he/she is pointed "away" from you; or

B) Opening them up, i.e. getting in between their arms, in the interior position so that you may easily attack their front centerline?

Which do you prefer and why? Oh, and by the way, how do you like to put that into play?

Thanks. Minor research project.
In general, I prefer closing them off. I like to get just behind a shoulder - what I sometimes call the "creepy position" (because you can whisper creepy stuff in their ear). From there, I have a lot of grappling and striking options, and they have few. If I can't make it that far back, I'll still usually prefer being outside that arm. It reduces their weaponry in most of the same ways, and I really like beating on floating ribs and temples.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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B) Opening them up, i.e. getting in between their arms, in the interior position so that you may easily attack their front centerline? Which do you prefer and why?
To be able to control my opponent's head and separate his arms away from his body is always my goal.

Why? Your arms are always stronger than your opponent's neck.

1. Principle:

rhino_guard.jpg


2. Training:


3. Competition:

 
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JP3

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I sneak up and hit him in the back of the head with a cue stick........Boom, Jones-itsu-who-hit-u strikes again
Hilarious, but sidesteps my based in boredom inquiry.

So, the imaginary you runs around assaulting people in parking lots from behind... and has a habit of carrying pool cues into inappropriate environments? Interesting.
 
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J

JP3

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I'll do either depends on whatever's open
Cop out, mano.... What do you "try" to make open? Which way would you move or manipulate to get... where?
 
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JP3

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In general, I prefer closing them off. I like to get just behind a shoulder - what I sometimes call the "creepy position" (because you can whisper creepy stuff in their ear). From there, I have a lot of grappling and striking options, and they have few. If I can't make it that far back, I'll still usually prefer being outside that arm. It reduces their weaponry in most of the same ways, and I really like beating on floating ribs and temples.
We all sort of assumed you were reepy, dude... and there you go and just ruined whatever mystery was left.

That location has a name, the being right behind the attacker's arm/shoulder, but I like "creepy place" too.
 

Headhunter

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Cop out, mano.... What do you "try" to make open? Which way would you move or manipulate to get... where?
How would I know it all depends on the situation and what's available. You can't say exactly what you'd do because there's far to many possibilities in a fight
 
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JP3

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I do both at once. Head off center. Strikes through the center line. Then strikes tend to follow the head out off center untill he readjusts. Then head off center again.

Sound basic tactical advice for striking engagement in initial stages of fight, but doesn't actually answer my question. Go behind the lead arm or step offline into the open space where their centerline is available (groin, belly, solar plex, throat)?
 

Tony Dismukes

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Hilarious, but sidesteps my based in boredom inquiry.

So, the imaginary you runs around assaulting people in parking lots from behind... and has a habit of carrying pool cues into inappropriate environments? Interesting.
He calls it Jones-itsu-who-hit-u, but it's really just an unauthorized rip-off of Llap Goch.
 

Tony Dismukes

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I prefer both if possible. A is my higher priority, but sometimes it's easier to get B first. If I do get B, I like to start working angles so I have both the inside control and the superior angle.

My opponent's stance, tactics, and movement style generally determine which option is more available.
 

CB Jones

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Also, if I have the size advantage I feel more comfortable working down the center between his arms but if I have a size disadvantage or I know he is a good grappler I want to work outside his arms
 

Danny T

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Generalized You vs. Opponent scenario, terrain is open and not an issue.

What is your tactical preference between the two choices of:

A) Closing the opponent off from you, meaning you are trying to get behind one of his arms so that you are directed "at" him/her, while he/she is pointed "away" from you; or

B) Opening them up, i.e. getting in between their arms, in the interior position so that you may easily attack their front centerline?

Which do you prefer and why? Oh, and by the way, how do you like to put that into play?

Thanks. Minor research project.
I tend to be aggressive in your face tactically. However, I go with what is given so have no preference.
 

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