Chi/Zen/JiGong

[mantis]

away from the ever and long-lasting religious debates going on recently, I actually do have a martial arts question. although this question was probably asked and answered so many times before
Is there any difference between tai chi, 'Zen', and JiGong (or QiGong)?
if I study tai chi for enough years and put enough effort will I be able to, say, stand on my fingers, hold a spear against my throat and whatever we see shaolin monks perform on TV?

thanks,
p.s. if your name happens to be 7starmantis could you kindly answer this question with respect to what we learn in our school?

 

[Flying Crane]

away from the ever and long-lasting religious debates going on recently, I actually do have a martial arts question. although this question was probably asked and answered so many times before
Is there any difference between tai chi, 'Zen', and JiGong (or QiGong)?
if I study tai chi for enough years and put enough effort will I be able to, say, stand on my fingers, hold a spear against my throat and whatever we see shaolin monks perform on TV?

thanks,
p.s. if your name happens to be 7starmantis could you kindly answer this question with respect to what we learn in our school?

Zen is the Japanese school of Chan Buddhism, which is one of many different schools of Buddhism. It involves meditation, and ultimately reaching a state of enlightenment.

Qigong are exercises designed to stimulate and strengthen movement of Qi energy throughout the body, which is the basis on which Chinese medicine is built.

Tai Chi Chuan is a Daoist martial art, and is one of the three major "internal" Chinese martial arts (the other two are Baqua and Hsing-I). Tai Chi Chuan focuses on the development and use of Qi to both gain health, and as an effective fighting tool. Tai Chi will frequently include the practice of Qigong exercises. Qi is very subtle and difficult to cultivate to a level where you can really use it like that. I believe that few people can really do it.

The ability to withstand sharpened spears pushed directly against your throat is probably a theatrical hocus pocus stunt. If anyone can do this for real, I suspect they are very few and far between. If you see a demonstration like this, be very skeptical.

 

[mantis]

Zen is the Japanese school of Chan Buddhism, which is one of many different schools of Buddhism. It involves meditation, and ultimately reaching a state of enlightenment.

Qigong are exercises designed to stimulate and strengthen movement of Qi energy throughout the body, which is the basis on which Chinese medicine is built.

Tai Chi Chuan is a Daoist martial art, and is one of the three major "internal" Chinese martial arts (the other two are Baqua and Hsing-I). Tai Chi Chuan focuses on the development and use of Qi to both gain health, and as an effective fighting tool. Tai Chi will frequently include the practice of Qigong exercises. Qi is very subtle and difficult to cultivate to a level where you can really use it like that. I believe that few people can really do it.

The ability to withstand sharpened spears pushed directly against your throat is probably a theatrical hocus pocus stunt. If anyone can do this for real, I suspect they are very few and far between. If you see a demonstration like this, be very skeptical.

oh, i see now
thank you sir, that just answers my question
although in believe in Qi there's what's called the fingers Zen or something.. whatever, i'll take your explanation. thanks

 

[wuchi]

Good post Flying Crane. Thought I would add a couple of points.

The stunts performed by the Shaolin monks are generally known as the 'hard' qigong, which was trained by directing and focusing qi at a certain part of the body like hand, head, throat, abdomen... After a relatively short time of training the practitioner is able to perform some really spectacular stunts like stand on fingers, breaking slabs of concrete with bare hands, smashing concrete blocks with a large hammer on top of the head, holding a spear against the abdomen or throat...

In taiji the emphasis is on holistic, ceaseless and unrestricted flowing of energy (like water flowing in a stream), developing sensing, adhering and neutralising energy, using four ounces of strength to deflect 1000 pounds of attacking force... Therefore its highly unlikely you will ever see an accomplished and dedicated taiji practitioner attempting stunts like standing on his fingers and RESISTING a spear on his throat, trying to bend and break it.

 

[7starmantis]

Good post Flying Crane. Thought I would add a couple of points.

The stunts performed by the Shaolin monks are generally known as the 'hard' qigong, which was trained by directing and focusing qi at a certain part of the body like hand, head, throat, abdomen... After a relatively short time of training the practitioner is able to perform some really spectacular stunts like stand on fingers, breaking slabs of concrete with bare hands, smashing concrete blocks with a large hammer on top of the head, holding a spear against the abdomen or throat...

In taiji the emphasis is on holistic, ceaseless and unrestricted flowing of energy (like water flowing in a stream), developing sensing, adhering and neutralising energy, using four ounces of strength to deflect 1000 pounds of attacking force... Therefore its highly unlikely you will ever see an accomplished and dedicated taiji practitioner attempting stunts like standing on his fingers and RESISTING a spear on his throat, trying to bend and break it.

I agree. Mantis, our schools focus on fighting and the use of chi is quite different from the "hard qigong" training skills. While we heavily condition our bodies with "iron body" practices its for fighting reasons. Our tai chi and qi gong is meant in the way wuchi explained it. These exhibitions are simply showing the use of chi, but have very little fighting applications. While you can learn to perform these types of things from learning our tai chi and qigong, resisting force goes against a major principle of both tai chi and mantis kung fu. I think the ability to use that type of chi can be great in combat, but is not meant to just stand there and take it.

7sm

 

[Xue Sheng]

I agree with all of this, but I need to make a correction that I am certain was a typo.

Zen Buddhism is Japanese and it is very similar to Chan Buddhism, which is Chinese.

As for the Qi Gong bits, yup that about sums it up
Internal (Soft Qi Gong), I believe Nei Dan (Internal Elixir)
External (Hard Qi Gong) I believe Wai Dan (External Elixir)

There are 4 main categories of Qi Gong
1) Maintain Health
2) Cure Sickness
3) Martial Arts
4) Enlightenment

And almost all styles of Qi Gong cover more than one of the above categories