changing styles?
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Eldritch Knight
Blue Belt
I was in TKD for 6 years and then switched to kung fu. I find that my background has made learning kung fu very easy, since I already had most of the basics and body mechanics down. The main benefit I've found is that after getting a good handle on one art, learning another one supplements it and you get the best of both worlds.
I started out in Tae Kwon Do when I was a little boy. It was good exercise and a good experience in martial arts; the school was very open minded and tolerant of other styles. Pretty much everything I do now is JKD or oriented towards the development of my JKD.
I think that it is important to empty one's cup, so to speak (a terribly over used cliche, but a useful one none the less), and not wear stylistic blinders when changing styles or cross training in another system. If you only see other arts from the view point of a particular type of conditioning, you will not see the style in its real form and will not truly experience all it has to offer. Once you get a handle on the material, then is the time to compare and contrast it other technology. Really though, style is an illusion, but it certainly can be a convenient illusion.
I think that it is important to empty one's cup, so to speak (a terribly over used cliche, but a useful one none the less), and not wear stylistic blinders when changing styles or cross training in another system. If you only see other arts from the view point of a particular type of conditioning, you will not see the style in its real form and will not truly experience all it has to offer. Once you get a handle on the material, then is the time to compare and contrast it other technology. Really though, style is an illusion, but it certainly can be a convenient illusion.
still learning
Senior Master
Hello, This is very common thing to do. We cannot always control the teachers,schools,our jobs and things that change in our life. We change because our Sensi quit. We wanted to continue our training. (my son and I) Because he belong to no system. We needed to start over. Turn out to be a blessing. We like our Kempo training and it is just across the street from our home. Plus they have many schools across the USA and Hawaii. Five on the Big Island where we live. Got to meet and make many new friends, and the training is great. It is nice to learn other systems too.
Many times change is neccessary. Almost ever school have students from other styles, very common thing. Do not limit your knowledge. What is the definition of explorer? The first people to land in Hawaii,the Hawaiians, were explorers too. Find your way.... Aloha
Many times change is neccessary. Almost ever school have students from other styles, very common thing. Do not limit your knowledge. What is the definition of explorer? The first people to land in Hawaii,the Hawaiians, were explorers too. Find your way.... Aloha
MichiganTKD
Master Black Belt
During the color belt phase, it is important to find a style you truly like and fits you. You'll know it when you find it. To this end, trying different styles to find the one that fits is okay. Do not go from style to style trying to learn them all. You can't do it. I've met people who were style hoppers trying to have it all, and they end up learning a little from each style but not being truly grounded.
After Dan level is a little trickier. I think after Dan level, you are ready to truly study an art, so all of a sudden switching to a different style is self defeating.
After Dan level is a little trickier. I think after Dan level, you are ready to truly study an art, so all of a sudden switching to a different style is self defeating.
RanaHarmamelda
Orange Belt
Hmm. I recommend against doing two similar systems ever -- likely to get too confused. Trying to do TKD and Shotokan Karate at the same time is rough, to use a personal experience -- lots of little differences get in the way, it's quite hard to keep them seperate. On the other hand, doing, for example TKD and jujutsu isn't such a bad thing -- as long as you have a good enough base in one art or the other. Doing this helps fill holes in the arts -- sure, TKD often has some grappling worked in, and jujutsu has some striking worked in, but -- that's not either one's focus. Thing is, it's tough, really, to learn two different arts at once. Myself, I've stopped learning TKD formally, and concentrate wholly on jujutsu. So, yes, I have completely switched styles -- although I still self-practice my TKD. See no reason to give it up.
However, I know several people who do formally study more than one system, and do *quite* well in both. Myself, I may pick up another striking system, after I have a better base in jujutsu, and learn it at the same time. It's possible, just not necessarily easy. I see no reason not to train in two complimentary arts. So, in answer to should you leave completely, well -- depends on you.
I do take exception to a couple of above quotes -- first, don't know for certain that this is a journey you can ever finish. So, if that's your reason for sticking to one art -- reconsider. You may be unnecessarily closing yourself off to whole new avenues of MA thought. For example -- karate does a lot of kata -- but, after you've studied some judo, you start seeing whole new things in that kata -- it opens up a whole new world of karate for you to study. Stuff like that.
Second, switching to a new style after reaching a dan rank is not always self-defeating. It can be -- but I doubt it is, in most cases. If all you want is to know as much as you can, well -- switching styles after your reach dan makes sense -- you're going off to learn even more stuff. *shrug* You won't have a very deep knowledge of anything, but you'll have a lot of breadth. Not saying that's a good or bad way to learn MA -- if it's what you want to do, it's what you want to do. Go do it. In addition, reaching dan rank is where you are ready to truly study, yes -- but it is also when you should realllly know whether the art you are in is right for you. I realized, once hitting first dan in TKD, that I wasn't doing TKD -- I was doing karate with kicks. I also realized I didn't really *want* to do TKD. So, for me, switching styles was not self-defeating. It would have been self-defeating to force myself to stay in the same style. *shrug* And, finally -- as mentioned above, life gets in the way. What if you studied at the only Hung Gar place in town, and it closed down? You're SOL. Time to shrug it off, switch styles -- and, perhaps, keep practicing on your own, yah?
So those are my thoughts. I recommend studying two complementary styles, I recommend cross-training in seperate arts, and I recommend switching styles if you think it's best for you. On the other hand, I don't recommend actively learning two styles (read, learning the basics, the below-dan level stuff), I don't recommend studying two similar arts, and I don't recommend casually dropping a style. *shrug* But that's just me. Go do your own thing.
However, I know several people who do formally study more than one system, and do *quite* well in both. Myself, I may pick up another striking system, after I have a better base in jujutsu, and learn it at the same time. It's possible, just not necessarily easy. I see no reason not to train in two complimentary arts. So, in answer to should you leave completely, well -- depends on you.
I do take exception to a couple of above quotes -- first, don't know for certain that this is a journey you can ever finish.
So, if that's your reason for sticking to one art -- reconsider. You may be unnecessarily closing yourself off to whole new avenues of MA thought. For example -- karate does a lot of kata -- but, after you've studied some judo, you start seeing whole new things in that kata -- it opens up a whole new world of karate for you to study. Stuff like that.Second, switching to a new style after reaching a dan rank is not always self-defeating. It can be -- but I doubt it is, in most cases. If all you want is to know as much as you can, well -- switching styles after your reach dan makes sense -- you're going off to learn even more stuff. *shrug* You won't have a very deep knowledge of anything, but you'll have a lot of breadth. Not saying that's a good or bad way to learn MA -- if it's what you want to do, it's what you want to do. Go do it. In addition, reaching dan rank is where you are ready to truly study, yes -- but it is also when you should realllly know whether the art you are in is right for you. I realized, once hitting first dan in TKD, that I wasn't doing TKD -- I was doing karate with kicks. I also realized I didn't really *want* to do TKD. So, for me, switching styles was not self-defeating. It would have been self-defeating to force myself to stay in the same style. *shrug* And, finally -- as mentioned above, life gets in the way. What if you studied at the only Hung Gar place in town, and it closed down? You're SOL. Time to shrug it off, switch styles -- and, perhaps, keep practicing on your own, yah?
So those are my thoughts. I recommend studying two complementary styles, I recommend cross-training in seperate arts, and I recommend switching styles if you think it's best for you. On the other hand, I don't recommend actively learning two styles (read, learning the basics, the below-dan level stuff), I don't recommend studying two similar arts, and I don't recommend casually dropping a style. *shrug* But that's just me. Go do your own thing.
MichiganTKD said:
Great post! Too many people rush much too often to get what they feel is sufficient. Then move to the next art. Unfortunately this is what bastardizes the martial arts. Someone may achieve black in something (maybe) studies 5 other style...doesn't amount to much. Opens their own school applies for sokeship and then gives a bad rep for the martial arts. :asian:
Just my couple of pennies.
MichiganTKD
Master Black Belt
Exactly.
There are too many people out there, and we know who they are, who rush to study as many styles as they can. They then claim to found their own style, and perhaps even apply to a Soke Council, not realizing that their foundation is tenuous at best. I've stated before: I would much rather study from someone who has mastered one style but truly understands it than someone who knows something about several styles.
There are too many people out there, and we know who they are, who rush to study as many styles as they can. They then claim to found their own style, and perhaps even apply to a Soke Council, not realizing that their foundation is tenuous at best. I've stated before: I would much rather study from someone who has mastered one style but truly understands it than someone who knows something about several styles.
Master Ken Corona in Arizona says, "Have one master but learn from many."
I think it's good to dedicate yourself to one style and learn about other styles, because as much as we all wish to believe our art is all-encompassing, there is always much to learn from other styles.
Just my .02
I think it's good to dedicate yourself to one style and learn about other styles, because as much as we all wish to believe our art is all-encompassing, there is always much to learn from other styles.
Just my .02
AdrenalineJunky
Black Belt
I have to agree with this. I have practiced Muay Thai for many years and recently tried training in other arts. I have done this before with aikido and personally found aikido to be, well, not for me. Recently I tried JKD, and was dissapointed. Not in the art itself, but in its inability to be, well, muay thai. I was unable to shrug off my prior experience and move forward with JKD...partially because some of the strikes resembled thai elbows, knees and round kicks in a less-than-perfect thai fashion. I was equally dissapointed with the training aspect of it. I had fun...but not enough to cost me 70 bucks a month. Maybe I'll try a grappling art or a weapons art. Antway there's my experience, do with it what you will!achilles said:
Good luck...AJ
T
tmonis
Guest
I started out in TKD when I was 8. Switched to Ju Jitsu as a teenager and then to Kenpo after High School. Been in the Martial Arts for 30 years now. Ju Jitsu, I have found works very well with Kenpo. I use Ju Jitsu to draw in and hold my attacker, use Kenpo to finish him and use another Ju Jitsu throw or a takedown as a final technique. They belnd very well together in a close encounter.
Shizen Shigoku
Purple Belt
Lots of good advice here!
Enson: "...what about practicing 2 similar styles. like lets say arnis and modern arnis or 2 different classes of karate?
pros/cons?
should one leave the style to study another or do both?"
In that case, I think it is a bad idea to do both simultaneously, like RanaHarmamelda said, too confusing. Best would be to drop one and switch to the other, "empty your cup" and all that like terryl965, Eldritch Knight, achilles, etc. did.
Doing two simultaneously can be confusing if the two are very similar, or very different. If they are too similar, it's hard to tell them apart and you'll have a hard time getting the true flavor of either one of them. If they are too different, they might not complement eachother or mesh well.
Ceicei: "As for me, I like cross-training. My primary style is Kenpo and my secondary is Judo. They mesh together very well."
tmonis: "Ju Jitsu, I have found works very well with Kenpo. They belnd very well together in a close encounter."
I wouldn't have thought those two would mesh well - complement maybe - but I've seen too many cases where someone wants to have it all and does a grappling style and a striking style at the same time and ends up not being able to mix the two very well. It may be a matter of natural ability, talents, etc. that gets them to work.
Also is the matter of when to switch or add on.
I agree with MichiganTKD that in the early phases, shopping around is fine to find what fits you best. I also agree with shesulsa that one should have one style that they are most dedicated to, to have as a primary base, and then suppliment it with other arts along the way. Giving two or more the same amount of devotion seems difficult and almost wasteful to me.
My personal experience and tastes:
I "shopped around" when I was younger with various forms of karate, kungfu, kenpo, taekwondo, etc. and didn't find any that suited me. I can't say that I've completely "emptied my cup" of them yet, because I still see a little influence of each in my present personal style.
I eventually started Bujinkan Budo, and have been doing it the longest (over 6 years). A couple years into it, I also started taking aikido - just on a whim, and mostly by accident. I went in to it with, and still maintain, the perspective that Bujinkan Budo is my primary art, and aikido is merely a complementary suppliment. I have not achieved shodan in either, but I am very close in both.
At first it was very hard for me to adjust to aikido. I remember my first class, after I threw someone I followed up with a kick to the head out of force of habit
I was accused of doing "jerk-jutsu" by my then sensei with whom I no longer train. There are a few similarities in things like breakfalls and grappling that I sometimes mix up, but there are enough differences for me to know what to use and when. However, I still have not adopted the aikido style of breakfalls and rolling, as I find the Bujinkan way far superior (one works fine on concrete, the other only feels comfortable on mats), nor have I been able to resist using Bujinkan style kicking, takedowns and pins during aikido practice. Sneaky little ninja that I am, I have been able to slip them in without anyone but my uke noticing. My aikido sensei, who is more concerned with self-defense and effectiveness than with art, has not complained and in fact encourages such as long as it is somewhat in the spirit of aikido.
The reverse is also somewhat apparent. I've rarely used an actual aikido technique during Bujinkan training (if the Bujinkan has something similar, I use its method as it tends to be superior), however, I have noticed (and so have my instructors) an aikido-like flavor to my movements. I.e. more dynamic, more flowing, less overkill, etc.
Here's something ironic: In the last two real fights (a la bar room brawling) I've been in, I resolved both using only aikido techniques.
Enson: "...what about practicing 2 similar styles. like lets say arnis and modern arnis or 2 different classes of karate?
pros/cons?
should one leave the style to study another or do both?"
In that case, I think it is a bad idea to do both simultaneously, like RanaHarmamelda said, too confusing. Best would be to drop one and switch to the other, "empty your cup" and all that like terryl965, Eldritch Knight, achilles, etc. did.
Doing two simultaneously can be confusing if the two are very similar, or very different. If they are too similar, it's hard to tell them apart and you'll have a hard time getting the true flavor of either one of them. If they are too different, they might not complement eachother or mesh well.
Ceicei: "As for me, I like cross-training. My primary style is Kenpo and my secondary is Judo. They mesh together very well."
tmonis: "Ju Jitsu, I have found works very well with Kenpo. They belnd very well together in a close encounter."
I wouldn't have thought those two would mesh well - complement maybe - but I've seen too many cases where someone wants to have it all and does a grappling style and a striking style at the same time and ends up not being able to mix the two very well. It may be a matter of natural ability, talents, etc. that gets them to work.
Also is the matter of when to switch or add on.
I agree with MichiganTKD that in the early phases, shopping around is fine to find what fits you best. I also agree with shesulsa that one should have one style that they are most dedicated to, to have as a primary base, and then suppliment it with other arts along the way. Giving two or more the same amount of devotion seems difficult and almost wasteful to me.
My personal experience and tastes:
I "shopped around" when I was younger with various forms of karate, kungfu, kenpo, taekwondo, etc. and didn't find any that suited me. I can't say that I've completely "emptied my cup" of them yet, because I still see a little influence of each in my present personal style.
I eventually started Bujinkan Budo, and have been doing it the longest (over 6 years). A couple years into it, I also started taking aikido - just on a whim, and mostly by accident. I went in to it with, and still maintain, the perspective that Bujinkan Budo is my primary art, and aikido is merely a complementary suppliment. I have not achieved shodan in either, but I am very close in both.
At first it was very hard for me to adjust to aikido. I remember my first class, after I threw someone I followed up with a kick to the head out of force of habit
I was accused of doing "jerk-jutsu" by my then sensei with whom I no longer train. There are a few similarities in things like breakfalls and grappling that I sometimes mix up, but there are enough differences for me to know what to use and when. However, I still have not adopted the aikido style of breakfalls and rolling, as I find the Bujinkan way far superior (one works fine on concrete, the other only feels comfortable on mats), nor have I been able to resist using Bujinkan style kicking, takedowns and pins during aikido practice. Sneaky little ninja that I am, I have been able to slip them in without anyone but my uke noticing. My aikido sensei, who is more concerned with self-defense and effectiveness than with art, has not complained and in fact encourages such as long as it is somewhat in the spirit of aikido.The reverse is also somewhat apparent. I've rarely used an actual aikido technique during Bujinkan training (if the Bujinkan has something similar, I use its method as it tends to be superior), however, I have noticed (and so have my instructors) an aikido-like flavor to my movements. I.e. more dynamic, more flowing, less overkill, etc.
Here's something ironic: In the last two real fights (a la bar room brawling) I've been in, I resolved both using only aikido techniques.
** Lots of good advise and I may repeat some **
My Comements:
Changing styles as in leaving one behind and going to another is fine. I recommend that you leave the other one behind though and go into the new one with an open mind as they will do things differently, and this may caused problems if you constantly say, "But, that is not the way you do it you do it this way in art XYZ."
As to training multiple styles, I would recommend you train to one that you feel comfortable in that art and can move to another, and treat it as if you have elft the other one behind and approach it with a clean slate. This allows you to pick up new ideas or new teaching methods or even entries to techniques or techinques, and still allow you to fall back to your first or base art.
As to training two arts that are similiar, it is much more difficult than one would expect. There are many subtle differences that one or both arts will require, and they are different. Or one may have in mind a specialty, and have techniques and moves that would not work against all, yet, will work well in this specialty.
Now for my advise:
There is no one but the individual that can make their own decision on if they should trainelsewhere, for new ideas, or what ever the case maybe. Even if you go elsewhere and find it not for you, and come back that is also good as you find out what was not for you. You may find an art tht is god for you and not find the right teacher. I ay the right teacher not good teacher, as there can be a good teacher who is not right for the individual in question looking at studying an art. The student will be spending their money and time, and must enjoy the environment and also be able to learn from that environment, or it will not be enjoyable or productive. So, even if you move to new teachers in the same art, that is fine as well. Just remember no matter what, choice you do, do not bad mouth your previous instruction, let your actions speak for you. By saying or bad mouthing your previous instructor, you look bad, and put doubt into your new student instructor relationship. Think Clean slate, and let it go behind you. If asked be as polite as possible, and honest as possible. If you had a personal problme than say so, "I had a personal problme or I had problmes learnign from so and so with their teaching style, yet I did like the art, hence my reason for being here to continue my training. I do not mean to sound bad, for it was not."
Just my thoughts
:asian:
My Comements:
Changing styles as in leaving one behind and going to another is fine. I recommend that you leave the other one behind though and go into the new one with an open mind as they will do things differently, and this may caused problems if you constantly say, "But, that is not the way you do it you do it this way in art XYZ."
As to training multiple styles, I would recommend you train to one that you feel comfortable in that art and can move to another, and treat it as if you have elft the other one behind and approach it with a clean slate. This allows you to pick up new ideas or new teaching methods or even entries to techniques or techinques, and still allow you to fall back to your first or base art.
As to training two arts that are similiar, it is much more difficult than one would expect. There are many subtle differences that one or both arts will require, and they are different. Or one may have in mind a specialty, and have techniques and moves that would not work against all, yet, will work well in this specialty.
Now for my advise:
There is no one but the individual that can make their own decision on if they should trainelsewhere, for new ideas, or what ever the case maybe. Even if you go elsewhere and find it not for you, and come back that is also good as you find out what was not for you. You may find an art tht is god for you and not find the right teacher. I ay the right teacher not good teacher, as there can be a good teacher who is not right for the individual in question looking at studying an art. The student will be spending their money and time, and must enjoy the environment and also be able to learn from that environment, or it will not be enjoyable or productive. So, even if you move to new teachers in the same art, that is fine as well. Just remember no matter what, choice you do, do not bad mouth your previous instruction, let your actions speak for you. By saying or bad mouthing your previous instructor, you look bad, and put doubt into your new student instructor relationship. Think Clean slate, and let it go behind you. If asked be as polite as possible, and honest as possible. If you had a personal problme than say so, "I had a personal problme or I had problmes learnign from so and so with their teaching style, yet I did like the art, hence my reason for being here to continue my training. I do not mean to sound bad, for it was not."
Just my thoughts
:asian:
T
tmonis
Guest
Shizen,
I guess I should have said Hakkoryu Ju Jitsu. I am getting to old for all that grappling. :mp5: I find that using the locks and armbars of Ju Jitsu to hold and lock my attacker in, it makes it very effective for me to use my Kenpo skills. And as much as I hate to admit that I am getting old,:uhyeah: I still knock it around a bit. The last time I was in a bar room fight. The Drunk Guy, Me,:ultracool, was able to block the punch, lock in the arm, use a kenpo technique, and then perform a Ju Jitsu takedown. Then got arrested for fighting.
But do find that they work very well together.
I guess I should have said Hakkoryu Ju Jitsu. I am getting to old for all that grappling. :mp5: I find that using the locks and armbars of Ju Jitsu to hold and lock my attacker in, it makes it very effective for me to use my Kenpo skills. And as much as I hate to admit that I am getting old,:uhyeah: I still knock it around a bit. The last time I was in a bar room fight. The Drunk Guy, Me,:ultracool, was able to block the punch, lock in the arm, use a kenpo technique, and then perform a Ju Jitsu takedown. Then got arrested for fighting.
But do find that they work very well together.
Adept
Master Black Belt
Well, the old stand by is - 'It depends'.
It depends on your goal. If you want to learn a single art, then obviously swapping arts all the time is not a good idea. If you want to learn several arts, but only practice them in their singularity, then training in similar styles is not a good idea.
If you want to learn to defend yourself, or to simply be a better fighter, then there is only one style. Take what is effective and efficient, and leave the rest. Learn from everyone. Use what works.
It depends on your goal. If you want to learn a single art, then obviously swapping arts all the time is not a good idea. If you want to learn several arts, but only practice them in their singularity, then training in similar styles is not a good idea.
If you want to learn to defend yourself, or to simply be a better fighter, then there is only one style. Take what is effective and efficient, and leave the rest. Learn from everyone. Use what works.
V
Vadim
Guest
If you are open to learning new styles and you have the time go for it. As others have posted it depends what you plan to accomplish in the martial arts. I do think though that you need to have a solid foundation in one particular style in order to appreciate the technical aspects of your chosen style.
In approaching a new style be sure to keep an open mind to the training and be humble. Two similar styles probably would not be the best choice to pursue as confusion can rise from this. In any case you have the final decision to make. Be like a sponge and absorb it all! :asian:
-Vadim
In approaching a new style be sure to keep an open mind to the training and be humble. Two similar styles probably would not be the best choice to pursue as confusion can rise from this. In any case you have the final decision to make. Be like a sponge and absorb it all! :asian:
-Vadim
R
rainbows
Guest
I did kenpo for 7 years, before I ever did TKD. I was a junior black belt, and about 6 months away from my senior when my club basically imploded about 2 weeks before I started college. My college didn't have a kenpo club, so I decided to give TKD a go. Best decision I ever made. I didn't find it particularly hard taking up TKD, I just basically threw myself into learning the new style. Now 2 1/2 years later I'm about to grade for black tag on the 6th of December. Still loving TKD to pieces.
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