Chain Punch

[Transk53]

I think that is the big mistake that is made when applying the punches of WC. Most want to stay at a boxing range and hit only with their arms...this can be very easily dealt with by an opponent.
When performed properly, you are hitting with your whole body...the fist is just the delivery system....this is not so easy for an opponent to deal with.

This is why you see boxing dominating novice Wing Cun guys so often. It's hard to get past that range without eating a few... Chain punching for me is also the linking of punches. Not the bicycle punching you often see. It can be any number of punches. It can be performed at different levels, from high to low, with even a circular huen choi thrown in here and there.

I take you mean the circular swingers with no particular accuracy. Larger males tend to use it. Have you tried chain punching while targeting an opponent downwards. IE, they could be crouching down for example?

 

[Transk53]

When I chain punch, I'm not pulling my other hand back, rather I'm allowing my triceps to relax which causes my fist to retract to the area of the elbow of the other arm.
Think of a light switch on a wall...instead of clicking the triceps on, then off again when you pull the arm back, think of a dimmer switch. The punch goes out, the switch is all the way on, when the punch relaxes, the tricep is being "dimmed" but is still "on".
This gives springiness and constant forward force to the arm even in retraction.
If you pull the arm back, you are activating the biceps. A strong opponent can use that to his advantage and crash through by adding to your pulling motion.

Sweet. Yeah that is understandable. Simple physics as Kwan Sau as stated then. Thanks

 

[yak sao]

I take you mean the circular swingers with no particular accuracy. Larger males tend to use it. Have you tried chain punching while targeting an opponent downwards. IE, they could be crouching down for example?

Even with perfect accuracy and trajectory, if you stay at boxing range several things are happening...none of them good.
You are allowing your arms to extend, which causes you to lose your optimal arm angle. This allows your opponent to grab your arms, apply arm locks, or shoot in under your arms.
You are trading punches with them...if he's a boxer, he will be much better at this than you are.

Better then to close the distance. This keeps your arms bent at the proper angle of 135 degrees. He will have much more trouble trying to apply an arm lock, shooting under becomes more problematic for him as your elbows are lower.
By moving in, you are stepping in with your entire mass behind the punch, so now you are no longer trading punches with him. Instead, he is rocked back on his heels and off balance.
You still extend your punch, but now you are extending through him instead of to him. As your punch knocks him back you don't give him the luxury of increasing the distance. You stay with him and continue the barrage of attacks.

 

[yak sao]

Have you tried chain punching while targeting an opponent downwards. IE, they could be crouching down for example?

Against someone who is crouching down, or trying to shoot in, don't hit with your fists. At this angle you don't have as much stopping power, plus they're presenting less target area...you definitely don't want to pound the top of their head with your fists.
You can still punch though. Applying the same arm mechanics of heavy elbow, optimal angle, etc. you now hit with the blade of the forearm as it is applied in a punching type motion. Side of the neck, jaw, collar bones are very good target options for this.

 

[Transk53]

Even with perfect accuracy and trajectory, if you stay at boxing range several things are happening...none of them good.
You are allowing your arms to extend, which causes you to lose your optimal arm angle. This allows your opponent to grab your arms, apply arm locks, or shoot in under your arms.
You are trading punches with them...if he's a boxer, he will be much better at this than you are.

Better then to close the distance. This keeps your arms bent at the proper angle of 135 degrees. He will have much more trouble trying to apply an arm lock, shooting under becomes more problematic for him as your elbows are lower.
By moving in, you are stepping in with your entire mass behind the punch, so now you are no longer trading punches with him. Instead, he is rocked back on his heels and off balance.
You still extend your punch, but now you are extending through him instead of to him. As your punch knocks him back you don't give him the luxury of increasing the distance. You stay with him and continue the barrage of attacks.

Thanks. Boxing and trading punches I have no problem with. As an attack method, yes that is like I kind of imagined, but the first time around I saw no sparring and very little pad work done. In terms of a percentage towards damage, the head would seem would seem obvious, but I am guessing the torso would be preferable to get out of the way, as opposed to going for a knockout.

 

[Transk53]

Against someone who is crouching down, or trying to shoot in, don't hit with your fists. At this angle you don't have as much stopping power, plus they're presenting less target area...you definitely don't want to pound the top of their head with your fists.
You can still punch though. Applying the same arm mechanics of heavy elbow, optimal angle, etc. you now hit with the blade of the forearm as it is applied in a punching type motion. Side of the neck, jaw, collar bones are very good target options for this.

Right okay. I keep coming up actual blades on Google. So you're shooting down, contact with the usual surface area for an elbow strike, or more towards to hand in surface area?

 

[Danny T]

Right okay. I keep coming up actual blades on Google. So you're shooting down, contact with the usual surface area for an elbow strike, or more towards to hand in surface area?

Think Jop or Jum Sao
We are striking not just punching. Strikes can be with any part of the body.
In this case you are striking with the forearms vs fists.

 

[Transk53]

Think Jop or Jum Sao
We are striking not just punching. Strikes can be with any part of the body.
In this case you are striking with the forearms vs fists.

Sorry, vid quality is a bit poor.

 

[Danny T]

Sorry, vid quality is a bit poor.

Yes.
In training as in the video it is arm on arm. This is a drill. Not application though it could be applied in that manner.

 

[Transk53]

Yes.
In training as in the video it is arm on arm. This is a drill. Not application though it could be applied in that manner.

Yeah Youtube a bit of a thin stew on this. I'll keep digging though. Mind you as long as the technicians are the same at the school, the ones that I would know, I will ask them to demonstrate.

 

[Vajramusti]

Yeah Youtube a bit of a thin stew on this. I'll keep digging though. Mind you as long as the technicians are the same at the school, the ones that I would know, I will ask them to demonstrate.

------------------------------------------------
FWIW- not a comment on your specific post.
I am bewildered by the number of people who are
devotees of you tube...in their wing chun journey.

 

[Kwan Sau]

------------------------------------------------
FWIW- not a comment on your specific post.
I am bewildered by the number of people who are
devotees of you tube...in their wing chun journey.

Same here. At first, I thought it was nothing damaging...until the day I had a walk-in off the street to my class. He claimed he was a direct student of Yip Chun. I said "cool, let's see what you got" and proceeded to crash through all of his 'wing chun'. Turns out he meant he was a watcher of Yip Chun youtube videos. Go figure.

 

[Vajramusti]

------------------------------------------------
FWIW- not a comment on your specific post.
I am bewildered by the number of people who are
devotees of you tube...in their wing chun journey.

 

[Danny T]

------------------------------------------------
FWIW- not a comment on your specific post.
I am bewildered by the number of people who are
devotees of you tube...in their wing chun journey.

It's worse than the news media.
If it is on the news then it is true.
If it is on youtube it is true and is the best example of what is true.

 

[yak sao]

Same here. At first, I thought it was nothing damaging...until the day I had a walk-in off the street to my class. He claimed he was a direct student of Yip Chun. I said "cool, let's see what you got" and proceeded to crash through all of his 'wing chun'. Turns out he meant he was a watcher of Yip Chun youtube videos. Go figure.

I had the same thing happen. A guy showed up who had only learned from video. Outwardly, he didn't look all that bad, but there was absolutely no substance to what he was doing.
Kind of reminded me of those old fake movie sets where they just had the fronts of buildings.

 

[Transk53]

------------------------------------------------
FWIW- not a comment on your specific post.
I am bewildered by the number of people who are
devotees of you tube...in their wing chun journey.

Yes I agree with that on the whole. However, as I am very visual, I learn that way too. Again, I do not take anything on Youtube, Daily Motion etc., at face value. I dig as far as I can.

 

[Transk53]

Okay. Brfore mu thread dscends into a Youtube bashing sesh, or whatever else. Please understand that it is a visual learning aid, not a learning source. I please ask everyone not to mention it again. I thankyou

 

[Jake104]

Against someone who is crouching down, or trying to shoot in, don't hit with your fists. At this angle you don't have as much stopping power, plus they're presenting less target area...you definitely don't want to pound the top of their head with your fists.
You can still punch though. Applying the same arm mechanics of heavy elbow, optimal angle, etc. you now hit with the blade of the forearm as it is applied in a punching type motion. Side of the neck, jaw, collar bones are very good target options for this.

I agree with this. Typical shots (chain punching) to the back of head may not work because, there may not be that much time. Especially since good grapplers shoot in quick. Depending on how and what level the shoot comes in, will determine how it's dealt with. If it's really low you may need to drop to your knees with out breaking your spine structure like Sakuraba did in Pride against the Gracie's. If it's at a higher level/clinch. It becomes more of a fight for position to take the opponents balance (chi sao) to set the strikes up. Alan Orr has a video on this I like.

 

[Brummie]

I like the surprise element of chain punching. Of course, in the unlikely event that you run into a brawl with another WC guy, he's gonna have seen it before, but if it was a typical brawler, he's not gonna expect several punches delivered quickly with a fair generation of power.
Also in training, I like the expertise it gives to keep the arms supple and to work on and develop fa ging and releasing the energy and the end of the strike.

 

[Transk53]

I like the surprise element of chain punching. Of course, in the unlikely event that you run into a brawl with another WC guy, he's gonna have seen it before, but if it was a typical brawler, he's not gonna expect several punches delivered quickly with a fair generation of power.
Also in training, I like the expertise it gives to keep the arms supple and to work on and develop fa ging and releasing the energy and the end of the strike.

Yeah. Agree with you. Still struggling a little on the when you would start the chain punch though. No doubt it will enlighten me at some point