chain-punching damagewise.

[drop bear]

You are not talking about VT because your opinion of VT strategy is not actual VT strategy



Do you think this is an example of fighting with VT?



VT does not fight "in the pocket"

So sifu cliff doesn't understand VT?

Does anybody understand VT?

 

[Phobius]

So sifu cliff doesn't understand VT?

Does anybody understand VT?

To be honest you can learn VT and understand not very much of how it works. The method is mostly about entraining particular behaviors. To teacj it you need to understand it, but to do you just do.

 

[guy b]

So sifu cliff doesn't understand VT?

Do you think it is an example of fighting?

 

[drop bear]

Do you think it is an example of fighting?

Do they fight anyone?

 

[guy b]

Do they fight anyone?

I don't see a fight happening there, so I would say not. This leads me to wonder why you posted it as an example of VT fighting "in the pocket"?

 

[drop bear]

I don't see a fight happening there, so I would say not. This leads me to wonder why you posted it as an example of VT fighting "in the pocket"?

Do they ever fight anyone? That is probably as good as we are going to get.

 

[guy b]

Do they ever fight anyone?

You would have to ask Cliff Au Yeung. I do know that within the group I train public sharing of sparring footage is discouraged

That is probably as good as we are going to get.

It is merely a training drill, completely irrelevant to the question of how they fight. Is this the kind of footage you base your opinion of VT on?

 

[drop bear]

You would have to ask Cliff Au Yeung. I do know that within the group I train public sharing of sparring footage is discouraged



It is merely a training drill, completely irrelevant to the question of how they fight. Is this the kind of footage you base your opinion of VT on?

So there is no sparring footage. No fighting footage. That is the best example we will get?

Then we may as well stick with that.

 

[guy b]

So there is no sparring footage. No fighting footage.

There is a great deal of footage. I think that it is a good idea not to share such things with people who are not committed to the system, especially those who take an interest in criticising it.

Then we may as well stick with that.

Doing so would be pointless, since it isn't footage of VT fighting. It would be like watching footage of a boxer skipping or throwing a medicine ball and concluding that boxing isn't effective from that. Just demonstrates ignorance

 

[drop bear]

There is a great deal of footage. I think that it is a good idea not to share such things with people who are not committed to the system, especially those who take an interest in criticising it.



Doing so would be pointless, since it isn't footage of VT fighting. It would be like watching footage of a boxer skipping or throwing a medicine ball and concluding that boxing isn't effective from that. Just demonstrates ignorance

This fighting that nobody ever sees. The footage that is never shown. But definitely happens?

And It was a demonstration that VT fights in the pocket. People train sparring to represent their fighting. That is how sparring works. So is perfectly valid. Unless you can show otherwise.

 

[guy b]

This fighting that nobody ever sees. The footage that is never shown. But definitely happens?

The footage is shown widely, but usually not to people who hate VT on the internet. There is much better footage out there if you have a look, some of which gives an idea of how VT looks in practice.

It was a demonstration that VT fights in the pocket. People train sparring to represent their fighting. That is how sparring works. So is perfectly valid. Unless you can show otherwise.

Lol, it isn't sparring either. Completely unsuitable for showing how VT fights anywhere, including "in the pocket"

 

[guy b]

Lets move on from this fruitless discussion Drop Bear. I have said what I want to say

 

[LFJ]

I would punch and kick you and I wouldn't stop until you have successfully regain your balance.

I mean, it sounds like you're not successfully taking advantage and then laying off.

So the next time you spar and you knock your opponent off balance, then hit him. Don't just stand there and let him regain balance unchallenged. Hit him.

Yeah, I'm with you there. That's what VT is all about. But capitalize and keep the pressure on until the threat is neutralized.

 

[wingchun100]

While I may not be a student of his anymore, y'all should check out Russ Cichon's YouTube channel, as well as his student (and my WC brother) on The Phil Up. They go into so much depth. Also, while Phil does not have footage of full-blown sparring, he DOES go into how it would work on the street , versus MMA, etc.

 

[wingchun100]

I agree with Drop Bear on one thing: how you spar will in fact be how you fight because THAT is what you are engraining in muscle memory.

Does this mean NO ONE'S martial art will really work? It is impossible to say unless you go slug it out in the streets every day, which I would not recommend because I hear jail is no fun.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So there is no sparring footage. No fighting footage. That is the best example we will get?

Then we may as well stick with that.

Except that using that as an example is like using a video of a boxer working on the speed bag. It's just a drill, not an example of their fighting tactics.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Ah, so it refers to fighting while staying inside striking range?

Typically it refers to staying in that (non-clinched) range where you can punch with both hands without having to move your feet to do so. If your opponent retreats then you would have to step forward to stay in the pocket. Fighting in the pocket offers lots of offensive options and puts psychological pressure on the opponent, but requires that your striking defense be very good, because (obviously) your opponent is also in range to hit you.

"Fighting In the pocket" is used as an alternative to the common practice of moving in and out of range.

I'm curious about what guy b objects to in the assertion that VT tends to fight in the pocket. The overwhelming majority of WC/WT/VT practitioners that I've seen specialize in that range. There are long bridge techniques in the system, but they generally seem to be tools for getting the practitioner into that close range. I've never seen a WC/WT/VT practitioner advocate hopping in and out of range and sniping from a distance.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This fighting that nobody ever sees. The footage that is never shown. But definitely happens?

And It was a demonstration that VT fights in the pocket. People train sparring to represent their fighting. That is how sparring works. So is perfectly valid. Unless you can show otherwise.

But that's not sparring.

 

[wingchun100]

Typically it refers to staying in that (non-clinched) range where you can punch with both hands without having to move your feet to do so. If your opponent retreats then you would have to step forward to stay in the pocket. Fighting in the pocket offers lots of offensive options and puts psychological pressure on the opponent, but requires that your striking defense be very good, because (obviously) your opponent is also in range to hit you.

"Fighting In the pocket" is used as an alternative to the common practice of moving in and out of range.

I'm curious about what guy b objects to in the assertion that VT tends to fight in the pocket. The overwhelming majority of WC/WT/VT practitioners that I've seen specialize in that range. There are long bridge techniques in the system, but they generally seem to be tools for getting the practitioner into that close range. I've never seen a WC/WT/VT practitioner advocate hopping in and out of range and sniping from a distance.

It definitely does put psychological pressure on them because if someone lunges at you with a hook punch, they don't expect you to GO INTO THEM. They expect you to retreat. And if you know how to take advantage of that moment where their mind is too busy saying "holy sh*t, what's going on," then you will most likely win the fight.

 

[wingchun100]

Tony, you are also right in that the long bridge tools help us get into the appropriate range, much like there are tools you use in BJJ to get into grappling range.