Centerline

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Ronnin

Ronnin

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I mean I get the idea but I'm a bit confused on a part of the theory. I thought the center line was like a pole going in your back and out your chest. Therefore if I keep structural integrity I will be attacking with MY center line. If I'm attacking someones side, I wouldn't be attacking his center line.
 

Blindside

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I'll probably get in trouble for butting into a wing chun forum, but think of three lines. You and each of your opponents has a central line running vertically and bisects your body in half. Many of your vitals are located along this central line. So if you attack the center line of your opponent, you are conceptually attacking his vitals and his balance. There is also the center line which connects your and your opponents center lines, this is the line you are thinking of, this is path along which you open or close gates to access or control. So you are protecting your own central line, proceeding along the center line between you and your oppoenent, and attacking his central line.

Makes sense?
 

dungeonworks

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Wikipedia said:
Centerline

While the existence of a "central axis" concept is unified in Wing Chun, the interpretation of the centerline concept itself is not. Many variations exist, with some lineages defining anywhere from a single "centerline" to multiple lines of interaction and definition. The most commonly seen interpretation emphasizes attack and defense along an imaginary vertical line drawn from the center of the practitioner's chest to the center of the enemy's chest. The human body's prime striking targets are considered to be on or near this line, including eyes, nose, throat, solar plexus and groin.
Wing Chun techniques are generally "closed", with the limbs drawn in to protect the central area and also to maintain balance. In most circumstances, the hands do not move beyond the vertical circle that is described by swinging the arms in front, with the hands crossed at the wrists. To reach outside this area, footwork is used. A large emphasis and time investment in training Chi Sao exercise emphasises positioning to dominate this centerline. The stance and guard all point at or through the center to concentrate physical and mental intent of the entire body to the one target.
Wing Chun practitioners attack within this central area to transmit force more effectively, since it targets the "core center" (or "mother line", another center defined in some lineages and referring to the vertical axis of the human body where the center of gravity lies). For example, striking an opponent's shoulder will twist the body, dispelling some of the force and weakening the strike. Striking closer to the center transmits more force directly into the body.

75th Rangers??? WHOO-AHH! (salute)

I am still learning more about centerline each class, but here is the gist of it...and it is HARD to explain without the luxury of "showing" in person...for me anyways. Keep in mind, some lineages may have differing views on this.
 

Yoshiyahu

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Central Line Theory

In all of the forms the hands are crossed down and up to define the "Central Line". This IS NOT a block.

cl_gates.jpg
cl_central_lines.jpg
cl_frontstance_down.jpg




When the fingers are even as in the yellow lines, you can strike the same point in space with both fists without telegraphing your intent by moving your shoulders.



Center Line Theory
punch_noncl.jpg

Vital Points going down the middle of the body (Center Line)
vitalspotsfront.gif

http://wingchun.awardspace.com/theoriesandconcepts/

http://www.springtimesong.com/wccenterline.htm

I short your centerline is an Imaginary Line that goes down the middle of your body. To find the correct alignment. Touch your nose and go up or down...Your Nose is on the center line. Common body parts on the center line.

1.Peniel Gland(Third Optic Nerve behind the skull) Found in the middle of the head.
2.Nose
3.Throat
4.Sternum
5.Belly Button
6.Groin(Gonads or Penis)
7.In Between the Eyes
 

geezer

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I mean I get the idea but I'm a bit confused on a part of the theory. I thought the center line was like a pole going in your back and out your chest. Therefore if I keep structural integrity I will be attacking with MY center line. If I'm attacking someones side, I wouldn't be attacking his center line.

Centerline, central line... boy the terminology sounds pretty confusing. In my WT lineage, by contrast, we used pretty simple terms:

The vertical mid-line refers to the vertical axis of the body running from between the feet up to the top of the head. This is the line most of your vital organs cluster along.

The centerline is a horizontal line that is perpendicular to the vertical mid-line and runs from the center of the chest forward, parallel to the ground. It can be located by extending your arms straight and placing your hands together in front of your solar plexus. This is the line that the tan-sau, wu-sau and fook-sau movements follow in the first section of Siu Nim Tau form.

The connecting line is the line that links your vertical mid-line to your opponent's mid-line. In other words the shortest distance between the center of your body and his.

Basically, the typical WT approach is to keep our centerline (think SNT) aligned with the connecting line and aimed right at your opponent. That way, we can launch our attacks along our centerline, directly at the vertical mid-line of our opponent. This puts our body mass directly behind our punches and they are directed at the middle of our opponent's body. And unlike the sideways stance of JKD, it allows us to reach our opponent with either hand.

However, by using turning and deflection, we seek to redirect our opponent's orientation (and his centerline) aside, making it difficult for him to counter.

In other words, we face his center, but turn him off-line so he can't face ours.

Now there are exceptions to this general rule, especially at the more advanced levels, and there are other lines and concepts to be considered. But this, in a nutshell, is our basic approach.
 

Yoshiyahu

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Boy I am so use the common terminology have of what your were saying confused me...I kinda of know what your talking about...but using words is very hard to understand...can you provide pictures demostrating what the VA or Vertical axis is and show picture showing the HL and VML along with the connecting line...wow you have alot more lines than us too...lol...




very confusing...please show some diagrams or pictures?


Centerline, central line... boy the terminology sounds pretty confusing. In my WT lineage, by contrast, we used pretty simple terms:

The vertical mid-line refers to the vertical axis of the body running from between the feet up to the top of the head. This is the line most of your vital organs cluster along.

The centerline is a horizontal line that is perpendicular to the vertical mid-line and runs from the center of the chest forward, parallel to the ground. It can be located by extending your arms straight and placing your hands together in front of your solar plexus. This is the line that the tan-sau, wu-sau and fook-sau movements follow in the first section of Siu Nim Tau form.

The connecting line is the line that links your vertical mid-line to your opponent's mid-line. In other words the shortest distance between the center of your body and his.

Basically, the typical WT approach is to keep our centerline (think SNT) aligned with the connecting line and aimed right at your opponent. That way, we can launch our attacks along our centerline, directly at the vertical mid-line of our opponent. This puts our body mass directly behind our punches and they are directed at the middle of our opponent's body. And unlike the sideways stance of JKD, it allows us to reach our opponent with either hand.

However, by using turning and deflection, we seek to redirect our opponent's orientation (and his centerline) aside, making it difficult for him to counter.

In other words, we face his center, but turn him off-line so he can't face ours.

Now there are exceptions to this general rule, especially at the more advanced levels, and there are other lines and concepts to be considered. But this, in a nutshell, is our basic approach.
 

Joab

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I love that site. It's one of best places I've found online that explains things pretty thoroughly. I highly suggest reading most of their content, if you're interested in Wing Chun.

Joab: The defense shown here is different from the one one I was taught in Wing Chun. We slapped the arm attacking more toward the inner part of the body, and didn't stand and strike sideways but with the shoulders squared with the opponent, leaving more of your body exposed to an attack, to be honest, I like standing more sideways personally when attacked. I guess there are different ways of doing things in Wing Chun depending on the school you go to.
 

geezer

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Boy I am so use the common terminology have of what your were saying confused me...wow you have alot more lines than us too...lol...

Actually I just mentioned three lines (see below), while the illustration in your last post shows at least six!!! Again, our three main lines are:

1. The Vertical mid-line which goes up and down your body.

2. The Centerline which goes straight out from your solar plexus.

3. The Connecting line which is the line between you and your opponent.

...very confusing...please show some diagrams or pictures?

Very simple to show, but difficult to talk about ...the "tower of Babel" thing again. For a WT perspective, the best source would be Leung Ting's book, Wing Tsun Kuen. If I were more proficient with computers, I'd add something visual to this post. Sorry to confuse y'all.
 

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I guess there are different ways of doing things in Wing Chun depending on the school you go to.

Of course, even students of the same linage will teach different. It doesn't necessarily mean one is wrong and one is right. It's such a blessing that we get to choose our preference, isn't it? ;)
 

Yoshiyahu

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It may be the fact that terminology is different...so explanations may some sound totally obscure....


Of course, even students of the same linage will teach different. It doesn't necessarily mean one is wrong and one is right. It's such a blessing that we get to choose our preference, isn't it? ;)
 

Zyaga

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It may be the fact that terminology is different...so explanations may some sound totally obscure....

True, but I'm just referring to that fact that whether the style is Wing Chun, or anything else, people teach differently.
There is no exception to any style. Who is teaching determines what you will be taught and how it will be taught to you.
Of course, the foundation is the same, but yeah...
 

Yoshiyahu

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Well I have to agree...everyone is different. everyone body type is different. Some people have different phyiscal attributes. So there style of Wing Chun or anything else will be more beneficial.


True, but I'm just referring to that fact that whether the style is Wing Chun, or anything else, people teach differently.
There is no exception to any style. Who is teaching determines what you will be taught and how it will be taught to you.
Of course, the foundation is the same, but yeah...
 

Thesemindz

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In the American Kenpo school I trained in we had two terms, constant centerline and relative centerline.

The constant centerline divides the body in two roughly symetrical halves. It runs from the scalp, through the nose, to the navel, and terminates at the genitalia. Most of the major targets on the human body are at or near this centerline, including eyes, nose, throat, solar plexus, bladder, knees, and groin.

The relative centerline splits the body in two halves, relative to your perspective of your opp. This helps you to identify shifts in your opp. weight and balance, weapons which present a more immediate threat, where attacks are more likely to come from, and available targets on your opp.

Both of these centerlines exist on both you and your opp. and as much attention should be payed to identifying them on your opp. as defending them on yourself.


-Rob
 

Yoshiyahu

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What other Martial Arts uses the center line outside of Wing Chun?


In the American Kenpo school I trained in we had two terms, constant centerline and relative centerline.

The constant centerline divides the body in two roughly symetrical halves. It runs from the scalp, through the nose, to the navel, and terminates at the genitalia. Most of the major targets on the human body are at or near this centerline, including eyes, nose, throat, solar plexus, bladder, knees, and groin.

The relative centerline splits the body in two halves, relative to your perspective of your opp. This helps you to identify shifts in your opp. weight and balance, weapons which present a more immediate threat, where attacks are more likely to come from, and available targets on your opp.

Both of these centerlines exist on both you and your opp. and as much attention should be payed to identifying them on your opp. as defending them on yourself.


-Rob
 

redantstyle

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What other Martial Arts uses the center line outside of Wing Chun?

quite a few, though the understanding and terminology may differ. i prefer the term 'motherline'.

in contrast to the template i use, the wing chun model is external or two dimensional. at least from what i have read of it.
 
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