wooden dummies

bs10927

Orange Belt
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
86
Reaction score
0
what's the difference between the Wing Chun wooden dummy and the Hung Gar dummy?
 

Yoshiyahu

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,351
Reaction score
12
Location
St.Louis Missouri
Some sites make a big deal of Hung Gar dummies. But Hung Gar basically uses WC dummies in my opinions. JKD uses a slightly different dummy. The Wing Chun Knives were originally Just Hung Gar knives. Today WC Knives are made thiner than Hung Gar Knives!




Wing Chun Dummies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53EvOvHeyHk&feature=related




Hung Gar Mok Jong



Similiar to Wing Chun




Different from Wing Chun




Different Wooden Man
 
Last edited by a moderator:

almost a ghost

Blue Belt
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
230
Reaction score
11
Location
Whitney Ranch, Henderson, NV
images

I worked out at Kung Fu school that had a small Wing Chun class. The owner of the school, who wasn't a Wing Chun stylist bought the a dummy he saw online and it was rather unusable for WC because like the dummy pictured above the arms were way to far apart. So if you are looking at buying a dummy, keep that in mind LOL.
 
OP
B

bs10927

Orange Belt
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
86
Reaction score
0
oh...i see what you're saying.....didn't notice that before...thanks
 
OP
B

bs10927

Orange Belt
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
86
Reaction score
0
Check out the Wing Chun Swords oppose to Hung Gar Swords

Wing Chun Knives:





Hung Ga Short Swords:

you know, i was wondering about that....i was watching the 36th Chamber the other day and I kept thinking...those swords they're using are like Butterfly swords in Wing Chun although they're not fighting wing chun....
 

Yoshiyahu

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,351
Reaction score
12
Location
St.Louis Missouri
I don't know how true that is...Because the WC system has elements of Crane, Snake and Bak Mei or Pei Mei with in. So one would think that a regular hung gar dummy would be useable and same measurements as well...

I worked out at Kung Fu school that had a small Wing Chun class. The owner of the school, who wasn't a Wing Chun stylist bought the a dummy he saw online and it was rather unusable for WC because like the dummy pictured above the arms were way to far apart. So if you are looking at buying a dummy, keep that in mind LOL.
 

almost a ghost

Blue Belt
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
230
Reaction score
11
Location
Whitney Ranch, Henderson, NV
I don't know how true that is...Because the WC system has elements of Crane, Snake and Bak Mei or Pei Mei with in. So one would think that a regular hung gar dummy would be useable and same measurements as well...

I didn't see a problem with the dummy until I tried doing the first dummy form and found myself having to take a huge steps to get around the arms. To sum it up, I was pretty much breaking ideal foot work to make the form work.

IMO, that made the dummy unusable because I went from stepping to basically jumping.
 

Yoshiyahu

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,351
Reaction score
12
Location
St.Louis Missouri
Okay maybe some Hung Gar schools used different types of dummies. Because the ones I seen are alot similiar to the same ones I saw in this WC school. As well as the same ones My Sifu has.

I could be wrong....I have to do more research I suppose. There are other variations out there. But the three arms and one leg dummy that WC uses I have not seen an alteratation with Hung Gar yet...


Even the videos I see people using the Mook Jong...it is basically the same thing!


I didn't see a problem with the dummy until I tried doing the first dummy form and found myself having to take a huge steps to get around the arms. To sum it up, I was pretty much breaking ideal foot work to make the form work.

IMO, that made the dummy unusable because I went from stepping to basically jumping.
 

almost a ghost

Blue Belt
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
230
Reaction score
11
Location
Whitney Ranch, Henderson, NV
I'm really confused at what point you are trying to make, so let me explain in greater detail of what was different with the dummy I was using that stopped me from being able to use it effectively for the dummy form.

Here's an image of the dummy I was referring too with the same arm spacing.

http://www.tentigerskungfu.com/lft_hd_ld_dummy.jpg

Yes. At first it seems very similar one might expect with a Wing Chun dummy. But do you notice the angles of the arms? The tips of the arms are too far apart from each other. If you would to stand on top of the dummy and look down the base of the arms would be in a 90 degree angle to each other. That spacing is incompatible with WC stepping. How's that? As I explained before, this spacing was lead to the dummies arm being dead center with my sternum after stepping to the side, and stepping in with the tahn and low palm.

Now I have never seen a dummy with the arms that far apart, most I have seen are in the 45 degree range or less, drastically different than 90. Of course you have to also factor in the spacing of the holes on the dummy's body for the arms, most are around an inch. If you scroll up and see the pictures in another post you will see the difference in spacing.

Was the dummy I was working on for Hung Gar? I don't know, it could of been made for Wing Chun by somebody who didn't do Wing Chun, but between the pictures and videos I've been viewing online it seems Hung Gar favors arms that are set wider apart.

Okay maybe some Hung Gar schools used different types of dummies. Because the ones I seen are alot similiar to the same ones I saw in this WC school. As well as the same ones My Sifu has.

I could be wrong....I have to do more research I suppose. There are other variations out there. But the three arms and one leg dummy that WC uses I have not seen an alteratation with Hung Gar yet...


Even the videos I see people using the Mook Jong...it is basically the same thing!
 

Yoshiyahu

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,351
Reaction score
12
Location
St.Louis Missouri
That Dummy looks totally different than the Dummies I seen Hung Gar people use...There must be different types they use for different reasons...


I'm really confused at what point you are trying to make, so let me explain in greater detail of what was different with the dummy I was using that stopped me from being able to use it effectively for the dummy form.

Here's an image of the dummy I was referring too with the same arm spacing.

http://www.tentigerskungfu.com/lft_hd_ld_dummy.jpg

Yes. At first it seems very similar one might expect with a Wing Chun dummy. But do you notice the angles of the arms? The tips of the arms are too far apart from each other. If you would to stand on top of the dummy and look down the base of the arms would be in a 90 degree angle to each other. That spacing is incompatible with WC stepping. How's that? As I explained before, this spacing was lead to the dummies arm being dead center with my sternum after stepping to the side, and stepping in with the tahn and low palm.

Now I have never seen a dummy with the arms that far apart, most I have seen are in the 45 degree range or less, drastically different than 90. Of course you have to also factor in the spacing of the holes on the dummy's body for the arms, most are around an inch. If you scroll up and see the pictures in another post you will see the difference in spacing.

Was the dummy I was working on for Hung Gar? I don't know, it could of been made for Wing Chun by somebody who didn't do Wing Chun, but between the pictures and videos I've been viewing online it seems Hung Gar favors arms that are set wider apart.
 

Jimi

Black Belt
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Messages
542
Reaction score
11
Location
Beltsville, MD
From what I have seen the Hung Gar dummies can vary but usually have a heavier arm that pivots up & down and the Hung Gar dummies do not have the same arm configuration. Look at the site for Great Lion where Master Thorton makes many dummies. You will see.
 

Yoshiyahu

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,351
Reaction score
12
Location
St.Louis Missouri
Okay. I will have to asked around...Because in my town Most of Hung Ga people use similiar dummies to WC. There are some variations but alot of people I have seen have the same type of dummies as WC.

From what I have seen the Hung Gar dummies can vary but usually have a heavier arm that pivots up & down and the Hung Gar dummies do not have the same arm configuration. Look at the site for Great Lion where Master Thorton makes many dummies. You will see.
 

Yoshiyahu

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,351
Reaction score
12
Location
St.Louis Missouri
I have only seen Choy Li fut use one type of dummy...


Hung Ga I have seen four different types of dummies. Now Five since the showing of this slightly different variation...

almost ghost showed me the fifth varaition of hung ga dummies. The fourth one I saw was exactly like Wing Chun...the other three are totally different. An the fifth one from ghost is slightly different...



and don't forget Choy Loy Fut....
 
OP
B

bs10927

Orange Belt
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
86
Reaction score
0
I have another question on the wooden dummy. Why are the arms on the dummies different between makers? some are level with eachother and other makers have the arms 1 a little higher than the other.
but then both types are called Traditional Wing Chun dummies.
 

geezer

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
6,814
Reaction score
2,816
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I have another question on the wooden dummy. Why are the arms on the dummies different between makers? some are level with eachother and other makers have the arms 1 a little higher than the other.
but then both types are called Traditional Wing Chun dummies.

You've got a good eye o notice that. Of course, the square holes, or mortises, for the two upper arms have to be offset in order to function. However the better dummy arms are set with the square pegs, or tenons, off-center. By properly inserting these into their sockets, the two off-sets cancel each other out so that the arms end up on, or very nearly on the same level. However some sets of arms do not have this feature and so one arm will be a couple of inches higher than the other. This is acceptable, although not ideal, and may be characteristic of very early style dummies. What is not acceptable is to put the off-set arms in their sockets the wrong way around, as this will only increase the difference in height between the arms and give the dummy an incorrect geometry for training good technique.
 

BFL

Orange Belt
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
73
Reaction score
2
Location
I travel between North Jersey and Central Florida
I didn't see a problem with the dummy until I tried doing the first dummy form and found myself having to take a huge steps to get around the arms. To sum it up, I was pretty much breaking ideal foot work to make the form work.

IMO, that made the dummy unusable because I went from stepping to basically jumping.

Although not having seen a Hung Gar dummy up close, I use one built for the Pan Nam system and the arms are a bit further apart then a typical Y.M. dummy. I have not had any issue with performing the Y.M. form thus far. I examined my footwork closely after reading your post and found I had no problems with having to take huge steps or break ideal footwork but perhaps it's a height issue or just not as far apart as the hung gar dummy? I also noticed you stated the first dummy form, other than having differences perhaps from family to family does your family have more than one dummy form or did I simply misunderstand?
With respects,
Buzz
 

almost a ghost

Blue Belt
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
230
Reaction score
11
Location
Whitney Ranch, Henderson, NV
Although not having seen a Hung Gar dummy up close, I use one built for the Pan Nam system and the arms are a bit further apart then a typical Y.M. dummy. I have not had any issue with performing the Y.M. form thus far. I examined my footwork closely after reading your post and found I had no problems with having to take huge steps or break ideal footwork but perhaps it's a height issue or just not as far apart as the hung gar dummy?

I'm guessing the arms on the dummy I was using were further apart than the one you were using. I'm 5'10" with average sized torso and leg length. If I stuck to the stepping I was getting the arm dead center in the chest.

I also noticed you stated the first dummy form, other than having differences perhaps from family to family does your family have more than one dummy form or did I simply misunderstand?
With respects,
Buzz

What most people call sections I call forms, a habit from my karate days LOL. 7 sections = 1 form.
 
OP
B

bs10927

Orange Belt
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
86
Reaction score
0
anybody think that Ip Man's dummy is still around?
 
Top