Cane defence for Seniors

[DGF]

In my introduction, I am a newbie, I asked for directions to the right thread for my questions. Member Harold kindly directed me to this one.

I am a senior, 67 years old, with some minor disabilities. I walk for exercise on the many walking paths here in Reston VA. I am not a martial artist although I boxed in highschool and westled in college. I am not one of those senior citizens however that has kept himself in top shape. I ordered a cane from "Wooden Steel", oak, aggresive crook, octagonal shaft, brass tip with rubber bumper and a red oak finish. I also ordered a DVD on defence with a cane, (not that happy with it). Gang Graffiti has begun showing up on the walls of the underpaths here in Reston and I find myself being a little uncomfortable going un armed (although I have never been accosted), hence the interest in canes.

What I have found in my research on defence with a cane is a lot of martial arts moves that, quite frankly, are beyond my capabilities and probably beyond the capabilities of most men my age. I am not frail and I feel I have the ability to defend myself in some circumstances. One of my concerns is having the cane taken away from me and used against me. Many of the moves I see in the DVDs like overhead strikes appear to me to be the ideal way to put my cane into the hands of an attacker. Intuitivly I feel the need to keep both hands on the cane, and that my best strike would be the thrust. (I was in the army and had bayonet training)

I would like to have somefeedback on the subject of Senior citizen defence and perhaps some suggestions on DVDs that adress our particular problem. There does not seem to be anyone in my area that teaches these disicplines.

Thank you in advance for your suggestions.

 

[Drac]

Look into the "Street Defenses for The Cane" from CaneMasters....I believe it addresses the issues you have...

 

[jks9199]

I'm very familiar with the area you're talking about, and I wish I could tell you not to worry about it -- but that'd be a lie. Not only is there a gang presence, but there are plenty of other predators, and they'll only increase of the next few years as our economy cycles downward. FCPD is a very good department, and they work hard -- but they can't be everywhere, all the time.

A cane is a great option, and you're right; lots of the moves shown in videos are problematic at best. Videos aren't a good option for learning, because they can't correct or guide you personally, and they can't adapt the techniques to fit your limitations. You may want to consider a lanyard if you're worried about the cane being taken from you -- but the truth is that anyone likely to come after you is pretty likely to bring their own weapons. Really, an even better set of tools for personal protection, especially among the elderly or infirm, is the combination of a walking buddy, and cell phones. Two are less likely to be victimized than one, and a cell phone will let you call for help -- even in situations like falls or other medical emergencies.

If you'd like to send me a private message, I may be able to offer some more direct help.

 

[Brad Dunne]

"a lot of martial arts moves that, quite frankly, are beyond my capabilities"

This is a subject I've professed upon for many years. You are correct in keeping both hands upon the cane, as much as possible. Actually, forget almost all of the "martial arts" moves and use basic common sense. Strikes must be kept to a tight circle and straight line jabs. Think low, into the groin and the legs. Your stance should be somewhat like a boxer. Lead foot forward around 11 or 12 and rear foot around 4 or 5 (clock being used for reference), not to wide, but wide enough for strong stability. If you move, this stance allows you to go on 45% angles, remember how to skate, it's the same movement. This lets you get in closer, if you need/have to, buts places you on a good angle to do damage, but leaves the attacker in a bad angle. Now is when you can strike the head with short twisting cane movement (one hand high-one hand low, holding cane in the high middle). When attacker goes down, DON'T let get back up.
Take care and keep practicing...........

 

[DGF]

Thank you for your advice. I do carry a cell phone. My first self defence move is to avoid having to use self defence. I lived in bad neighborhoods in Chicago and my street sense is fairly good. My radar is fairly sensitive and has served me well in the past. I do not intentionally walk into "iffy" situations.

I do not carry credit cards or much cash when I walk. I would gladly give up the cash rather than fight. But, that being said, there are still situations, extreme as they might be, that might force me to resort to some defence. If it ever came to that it would mean that I would want to take out and disable an attacker as quickly and decisively as I could. If I have to fight,(flight is not an option, as I would be easily overtaken) It will only be in a desperate move to protect myself. So, I am working on my own method, developing moves that I feel confident with. My own Tai Chi if you will. I am starting from scratch without a martial arts background, but I wish there were some kind of instruction for people in my category, (why reinvent the wheel ?).

I will not prevail in a long fight against a young adversary I need to take them out immediately and make them unable to continue. The last thing I want to do is just hurt them enough to make them angry. They need to go down long enough for me to walk away and call 911.

I know this is a tall order, but I don't believe it is impossible. I refuse to let myself be forced into being so timid that I am afraid leave the house. Besides, carrying a cane makes me feel better about myself and gives me some confidence, not "false" I hope.

 

[tshadowchaser]

think as that cane as a bat or a spear.
keep the moves tight and do not over swing

most stuff you will find on videos is "SHOW" and of little use (IMHO)
if someone grabs that cane punch or kick them do not struggle for the cane but attack with everything else you have or RUN

 

[DGF]

Thank you all for your advice. I wonder about the power of a cane. I have no doubt a thrust using hips and legs into the solar plexis, groin, liver ect would be effective, but would it disable someone? I would think a swing with a cane kept low to an ankle or knee would make it difficult for the attacker to grab the cane. Is it best to hit on the outside of the knee or on the inside, same with the ankle? If well hit, remember, hit by me not Sammy Sosa, will it break a bone? Also it is recomended by my DVD to hit for the collar bone if possible, would I break a collar bone?

I would only use these techniques as an absolute last resort, even after crying like a little girl and begging for him not to hurt me, LOL.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

If you want a very good online group that deals with cane defense, try:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/PerfectWeapon/
You have to have a Yahoo ID to use the group, but it is worth checking out.

AoG

 

[jks9199]

Thank you for your advice. I do carry a cell phone. My first self defence move is to avoid having to use self defence. I lived in bad neighborhoods in Chicago and my street sense is fairly good. My radar is fairly sensitive and has served me well in the past. I do not intentionally walk into "iffy" situations.

I do not carry credit cards or much cash when I walk. I would gladly give up the cash rather than fight. But, that being said, there are still situations, extreme as they might be, that might force me to resort to some defence. If it ever came to that it would mean that I would want to take out and disable an attacker as quickly and decisively as I could. If I have to fight,(flight is not an option, as I would be easily overtaken) It will only be in a desperate move to protect myself. So, I am working on my own method, developing moves that I feel confident with. My own Tai Chi if you will. I am starting from scratch without a martial arts background, but I wish there were some kind of instruction for people in my category, (why reinvent the wheel ?).

I will not prevail in a long fight against a young adversary I need to take them out immediately and make them unable to continue. The last thing I want to do is just hurt them enough to make them angry. They need to go down long enough for me to walk away and call 911.

I know this is a tall order, but I don't believe it is impossible. I refuse to let myself be forced into being so timid that I am afraid leave the house. Besides, carrying a cane makes me feel better about myself and gives me some confidence, not "false" I hope.

Nor is that something I want!

It's great to me that you recognize your personal capabilities, and are seeking ways to maintain them (heath & exercise) and maintain your lifestyle by not ceding the streets to the punks.

 

[terryl965]

Look into the "Street Defenses for The Cane" from CaneMasters....I believe it addresses the issues you have...

I would have to agree with Drac.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

As we get older it is important to note that we will
not be winning any battles with strength. Instead
we must be wise and cunning. A cane is a formidable
tool if you are willing to take the time and effort
into practicing with it. There are alot of methods
of striking while holding it with two hands. I wish you
the best and good luck.

Here is Ed Martin's website:
http://www.pennsylvaniabujinkan.com/

And his self defense for everyone tape
http://members.aol.com/janikvideo/4.html
I have not seen this video but several
people have commented that it was good.

I know that he has some cane videos that
several friends have recommended as well.
Just email him and I am sure he can help you
out.

I have trained with Ed and he is older and has
arthritis. He uses moves that can work for an old
man. (that is what he say's not me)

Once again good luck and train and learn to
protect yourself.

 

[matt.m]

Even though I am a hapkidoan that practices the 10 gup rank cane techniques daily, I am a military vet that has to walk with one at the ripe old age of 33.

Anyway, the best advice is to yell "Fire", I have a 2 inch thick heartwood oak cane that I walk with, out of necessity from prior military injuries. So if you have the option, please invest in a nice thick cane. When you strike with it use baseball type swing, or a reaping pull.

The option I hope for you is that you never have to defend yourself. Although, I do hope that swinging a cane like a cycil or baseball bat is your best bet.

Good luck my friend.

 

[Drac]

Thank you all for your advice. I wonder about the power of a cane. I have no doubt a thrust using hips and legs into the solar plexis, groin, liver ect would be effective, but would it disable someone? I would think a swing with a cane kept low to an ankle or knee would make it difficult for the attacker to grab the cane. Is it best to hit on the outside of the knee or on the inside, same with the ankle? If well hit, remember, hit by me not Sammy Sosa, will it break a bone? Also it is recomended by my DVD to hit for the collar bone if possible, would I break a collar bone?

Go for a shin strike doesn't need much power and it hurts like hell...As far as WHERE to hit???On whatever target presents itself....

 

[charyuop]

Instead of a big cane, why don't you buy a big canine??
A big dog is good enough to scare people and if they want to bother you anyway, it can keep them at distance the time to call 911. Not to mention they are good friends and good company. Training a dog is easier than learning MA moves that could get you more hurt since as you said you didn't keep up the good shape.
You said the problem is because of gangs and I don't think gang people walk around alone, which will make self defence more complicated.

Learning some self defense stuff is good, I am not advicing against it, on the contrary. What I am advicing against is solely counting on the cane and the skills you might acquire as your personal defense. The suggestion of bringing someone with you is excellent, but if you can't a dog is wonderful too. Walk always in areas where there are homes and in hours where most of the people are at home or not asleep. Might even carry a stone with you to throw to a window in case of emergency...that will attract the attention of the homeowner who hopefully will call 911.
As they suggested draw attention, but avoid the classic "help", people tend to ignore it. It is more reliable a "fire" or shout something about a kid needing help for something (people tend to run promptly when kids are involved). If all they want is your wallet try not to give it to them directly, but instead throw it on the ground and walk away the opposite direction where you threw the wallet at.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

Instead of a big cane, why don't you buy a big canine??

Canes are easier to carry into malls, airplaines, conveniece stores, city buses, Wal-Marts, grocery stores, and banks than large dogs.
;-)
I am being a little tongue in cheek, but I am for real. Also, what if you live in an apartment that does not allow pets?
Dogs are good, but far less convenient than a ten dollar walking cane.

AoG

 

[ArmorOfGod]

Make sure you go here:
https://www.ruralking.com/Store/detail.aspx?ID=16790
A lot of cane guys (like me) are using that site for ten dollar canes. They are shaped like the $120 Canemaster canes and work just as well.
As for the Falcon system that guy recommended on the Yahoo website, don't use that junk--you'll get killed. Try to borrow of find some of the Canemaster tapes. They are easier and work far better.
Good luck!

AoG

 

[jks9199]

Instead of a big cane, why don't you buy a big canine??
A big dog is good enough to scare people and if they want to bother you anyway, it can keep them at distance the time to call 911. Not to mention they are good friends and good company. Training a dog is easier than learning MA moves that could get you more hurt since as you said you didn't keep up the good shape.
You said the problem is because of gangs and I don't think gang people walk around alone, which will make self defence more complicated.

Learning some self defense stuff is good, I am not advicing against it, on the contrary. What I am advicing against is solely counting on the cane and the skills you might acquire as your personal defense. The suggestion of bringing someone with you is excellent, but if you can't a dog is wonderful too. Walk always in areas where there are homes and in hours where most of the people are at home or not asleep. Might even carry a stone with you to throw to a window in case of emergency...that will attract the attention of the homeowner who hopefully will call 911.
As they suggested draw attention, but avoid the classic "help", people tend to ignore it. It is more reliable a "fire" or shout something about a kid needing help for something (people tend to run promptly when kids are involved). If all they want is your wallet try not to give it to them directly, but instead throw it on the ground and walk away the opposite direction where you threw the wallet at.

You've got some good advice -- but dogs are not, without specialized training of both the owner and dog, reliable self-defense tools. Nor are they reliable home defense systems. I've worked plenty of cases where the dog did not stop the burglar... and there are plenty of instances where a person was attacked and the dog simply ran off.

I'm not saying dogs are bad, but too often people assume that simply having the dog is all it takes. If your dog is part of your defensive plan -- you need to spend time training and working with the dog, just like you would spend time on the range developing your ability to shoot.

 

[Sukerkin]

I was going to offer some glib, over-reactionary, 'advice' along the lines of "Just shoot the SOB and use your age as a 'lever' in court" but there are several strikes against that, the two primary ones being:

1) I am English and have no experience of using firearms as self-defence
2) There are a couple of very experienced LEO's in this thread who would take great exception to such words .

It's never an easy thing to become old, I have seen the effects on my father of his waning strength and increasing infirmity as he nears 80. You seem to have, as we English say, your head screwed on when it comes to the realities of life and I wish you the best of luck in finding a legal solution to your dilema.

 

[hapkenkido]

get the canemasters vids or the cane dvd from combat hapkido (ichf)

 

[frank raud]

Techniques from a senior master
http://gutterfighting.org/Umbrella.html

Also check out Ted Truscott's Raising cane

http://defendyourself101.ca/