Can someone explain this to me?

[Onesword23]

Is this type of training an example of practical self defense that can really work in the streets against an attacker? Does it work for real this smoothly or is it not as easy to execute in real life? I was just curious, thanks.

 

[drop bear]

No. Fighing is different.

 

[CB Jones]

Dead Training. Easy when the other guy doesn't resist and plays along.

Be interesting to see that attempted against a live opponent. I have my doubts.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In fighting, if you make 1 move, your opponent will respond with 1 move. To assume you are 3 times faster than your opponent is not realistic. Most of the time, your opponent will respond when you just do 1/2 of your move. For example, when you punch 1/2 way, your opponent's body may already move away.

A good demo should not assume that your opponent just freezes. IMO, a good demo should take advantage on your opponent's respond.

- You attack.
- Your opponent responds.
- You attack again during his respond.

 

[Onesword23]

How do you train in a self defense like this so it feels real without one guy having to be the "play along" dummy on the receiving end?

 

[Onesword23]

In fighting, if you make 1 move, your opponent will respond with 1 move. To assume you are 3 times faster than your opponent is not realistic. Most of the time, your opponent will respond when you just do 1/2 of your move. For example, when you punch 1/2 way, your opponent's body may already move away.

A good demo should not assume that your opponent just freezes. IMO, a good demo should take advantage on your opponent's respond.

I've seen this a lot in martial art schools promoting similar stuff like this for their self defense demos, with slogans like "you could be learning this too if you join" how do you learn real self defense to get the feel for how you would deal in a real life scenario and tell from which school is teaching real and which is teaching nothing but hype (which is similar to bullshido)?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

How do you train in a self defense like this so it feels real without one guy having to be the "play along" dummy on the receiving end?

- Your opponent holds on a kicking shield.
- He runs toward you with full speed and full power.
- You punch or kick on that shield and try to stop his forward momentum without being pushed back.

Repeat this 100 times. Record how many time that your punch/kick can stop your opponent and how many times that your body has been pushed back.

You also record the testing result by asking your opponent to

- punch 20 times at you.
- kick 20 times at you.
- take you down 20 times.
- ...

MA skills without testing are not dependable MA skills.

 

[Onesword23]

I see what you're saying. So it's like being choreographed. Am I better just learning MMA to get the best training for real self defense?

 

[Onesword23]

- Your opponent holds on a kicking shield.
- He runs toward you with full speed and full power.
- You punch or kick on that shield and try to stop his forward momentum without being pushed back.

Repeat this 100 times. Record how many time that your punch/kick can stop your opponent and how many times that your body has been pushed back.

That's a good concept. A little while ago I tried a few lessons from this guy that told me he knew various styles including aikijutsu/aikido/kung fu/karate/ninjitsu/silat and was constantly throwing me around, putting me in locks, pressure points as he would have me come in for an attack. They were very painful and I was in constant pain through each session but he did not allow me to practice the moves against him. Is this a good or bad way to train?

 

[CB Jones]

My question would be.....where has this been tested in real life?

Where have they tested this in live training?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

he did not allow me to practice the moves against him. Is this a good or bad way to train?

Your MA instructor should allow you to apply technique on other student. If you are the only student (private lesson), your instructor should treat himself as your training partner.

For each and every MA technique, not only you should train how to apply that technique. You should also train

- how to counter it.
- how to counter those counters.

 

[Onesword23]

Your MA instructor should allow you to apply technique on other student. If you are the only student (private lesson), your instructor should treat himself as your training partner.

For each and every MA technique, not only you should train how to apply that technique. You should also train

- how to counter it.
- how to counter those counters.

It was private sessions and no he would not allow me to practice them against him, he told me I didn't need to and just picture the moves he applied to me in my mind at home and that these moves require little effort and force so I wouldn't need to train them against someone. He also mentioned they are too dangerous of moves to practice and apply on someone and can only be truly applied in self defense.

 

[drop bear]

I see what you're saying. So it's like being choreographed. Am I better just learning MMA to get the best training for real self defense?

Short answer is yes.

 

[drop bear]

It was private sessions and no he would not allow me to practice them against him, he told me I didn't need to and just picture the moves he applied to me in my mind at home and that these moves require little effort and force so I wouldn't need to train them against someone. He also mentioned they are too dangerous of moves to practice and apply on someone and can only be truly applied in self defense.

In a fight you should probably use moves you can actually do rather than moves applied in your mind.

Way back in the day I tried to wrist lock a friend of mine play fighting. Instead of falling over like he was supposed to do. He slapped me in the face. This was because as he was not a martial artist he had no interest in letting my technique work.

I didn't realize at the time but that was an important lesson in what I should have been training in self defence.

 

[O'Malley]

My question would be.....where has this been tested in real life?

Where have they tested this in live training?

The guy's from my hometown in Belgium (Charleroi).

He's (was?) kind of famous around those parts for trying to scare away security agents in nightclubs in order to cannibalize their contracts and expand his security agency business.

I know at least three people in two different cities that got attacked by him and all of them kicked him out so I'm not sure about the skills working in a real fight.

If I remember Fred Mastro's background correctly, he was a FISFO instructor before founding his own brand. FISFO is a self defense system based on Pencak Silat (website says "style Setia Hati Terate") and founded in France by a guy named Charles Joussot. The system (or its offshoots like Frank Ropers's stuff) seems to be pretty popular with security agents in France and Belgium.

Edit: here's arguably the most famous silat practicioner (due to agressive marketing) in France and Belgium, he and Mastro both come from FISFO:

 

[Punchy]

It was private sessions and no he would not allow me to practice them against him, he told me I didn't need to and just picture the moves he applied to me in my mind at home and that these moves require little effort and force so I wouldn't need to train them against someone. He also mentioned they are too dangerous of moves to practice and apply on someone and can only be truly applied in self defense.

That's total BS. If he has the type of skills you described, he got them from p pressure testing against a partner.

 

[hoshin1600]

The OP's clip of mastro is a demonstration. in no way should it be considered to be how real fighting happens. we have had this discussion before on this very video clip. he is showing off to impress people. that is the exact purpose of a demonstration, to show off so people will purchase your stuff.

if you want to learn to fight , there are no short cuts. pick a place and go train. the style or teacher as long as they are competent is less important than you showing up on a consistent basis.

 

[JR 137]

That's a good concept. A little while ago I tried a few lessons from this guy that told me he knew various styles including aikijutsu/aikido/kung fu/karate/ninjitsu/silat and was constantly throwing me around, putting me in locks, pressure points as he would have me come in for an attack. They were very painful and I was in constant pain through each session but he did not allow me to practice the moves against him. Is this a good or bad way to train?

It was private sessions and no he would not allow me to practice them against him, he told me I didn't need to and just picture the moves he applied to me in my mind at home and that these moves require little effort and force so I wouldn't need to train them against someone. He also mentioned they are too dangerous of moves to practice and apply on someone and can only be truly applied in self defense.

Completely ridiculous on so many levels...

If they were “too dangerous of moves to practice and apply on someone and can only be truly applied in self defense” then how come he did them to you? Wouldn’t that negate everything he said?

Learning solely it by visualizing it working and not practicing it? You’ve never ridden a bike before. Watch me circle around you, go off some jumps, and do some tricks. You’re not allowed to get on your bike, but you have to visualize it. Riding a bike is only for longer distance transportation when your car is in the shop and the busses and trains aren’t running. Don’t touch that bike until there’s absolutely no other choice, because it’s too dangerous.

Should I go through a swim instructor scenario where the teacher says visualize swimming, but it’s too dangerous to actually get in the water and practice, and swimming is only for if you fall into the pool and have no other option?

Sorry, but this MA “teacher” simply wanted a punching bag/tackling dummy and nothing more. He should’ve paid you.

 

[CB Jones]

The OP's clip of mastro is a demonstration. in no way should it be considered to be how real fighting happens.

This is why it makes me wonder how it has done under real world application and/or pressure testing.

 

[CB Jones]

Why do you want to know? The stuff you see in the first post is all instructional demonstrations....

Part curiosity of the system.

Partly because I feel if you are gonna teach a system marketed solely for self defense it needs to be backed by real experience and pressure tested. So I’m curious to is background and testing.