Calling Somebody's Dojo A McDojo Is Offensive

jayoliver00

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Calling somebody else's dojo a mcdojo, on this forum or anywhere else, I would like to point out that's very offensive. A dojo where somebody has invested their time and dedication, to bash their dojo is very bad manners. Im saying this because I've experienced some of that on this forum myself.

how about a carryout-dojo?
 

Dirty Dog

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Well that's fine, to disagree with my point or to call it wrong, but all too often you act like you don't even get it in the first place.
Or... just maybe... you're the one missing the point. The point being that some of the things you say are laughable.
 
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PhotonGuy

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Or... just maybe... you're the one missing the point. The point being that some of the things you say are laughable.
Im not the one missing the point if Im the one trying to make the point in the first place.
 

geezer

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Im not the one missing the point if Im the one trying to make the point in the first place.
That's a really thought provoking proposition. Is it even possible to initiate a conversation by making a point that clearly "misses the point"? I think it is.

....At least I have been accused of that on occasion. :)
 

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missing-the-point-some-people-do-it-like-its-their-2745816.png
 
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PhotonGuy

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That's a really thought provoking proposition. Is it even possible to initiate a conversation by making a point that clearly "misses the point"? I think it is.

....At least I have been accused of that on occasion. :)
Well as an example, back when I first started talking about how students got promoted at the dojo I was going to, I mentioned how it was up to students to sign up and test when they were running tests. Just testing of course didn't mean you would promote you obviously had to do well enough on the test to promote otherwise it wouldn't be a test. I then talked about how there was a myth that you had to be told by the head sensei before you could test for first degree black belt and that it was a myth that I believed.

Dirty dog then started calling my dojo a mcdojo because as far as he was concerned you should have to be told before you can test for all belts and all ranks not just first degree black belt. He was missing the point. If he wants to make it so that students have to be told before they can test for every and any belt he can do that at his dojo but that wasn't the point. The point was that I could've tested for black belt much earlier because I didn't know that I didn't have to wait for the head sensei to tell me I could test, not to discuss his opinion on whether or not students should be told before they can test for every belt.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Well as an example, back when I first started talking about how students got promoted at the dojo I was going to, I mentioned how it was up to students to sign up and test when they were running tests. Just testing of course didn't mean you would promote you obviously had to do well enough on the test to promote otherwise it wouldn't be a test. I then talked about how there was a myth that you had to be told by the head sensei before you could test for first degree black belt and that it was a myth that I believed.

Dirty dog then started calling my dojo a mcdojo because as far as he was concerned you should have to be told before you can test for all belts and all ranks not just first degree black belt. He was missing the point. If he wants to make it so that students have to be told before they can test for every and any belt he can do that at his dojo but that wasn't the point. The point was that I could've tested for black belt much earlier because I didn't know that I didn't have to wait for the head sensei to tell me I could test, not to discuss his opinion on whether or not students should be told before they can test for every belt.
Where exactly did this happen? The closest I can find is this thread: Belt Rank Progress

But in that thread he does not call your dojo a mcdojo. He A) makes the statement that letting people sign up for tests earns the dojo more money (which is objectively true-if more people sign up for tests, assuming that's something they pay to do, then the dojo gets more money), and B) states that your suggestion of automatic promotion based on time in grade would be a mcdojo (which is pretty much the opposite of what you described your school doing).
 

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Well as an example, back when I first started talking about how students got promoted at the dojo I was going to, I mentioned how it was up to students to sign up and test when they were running tests. Just testing of course didn't mean you would promote you obviously had to do well enough on the test to promote otherwise it wouldn't be a test. I then talked about how there was a myth that you had to be told by the head sensei before you could test for first degree black belt and that it was a myth that I believed.

Dirty dog then started calling my dojo a mcdojo because as far as he was concerned you should have to be told before you can test for all belts and all ranks not just first degree black belt. He was missing the point. If he wants to make it so that students have to be told before they can test for every and any belt he can do that at his dojo but that wasn't the point. The point was that I could've tested for black belt much earlier because I didn't know that I didn't have to wait for the head sensei to tell me I could test, not to discuss his opinion on whether or not students should be told before they can test for every belt.
If you post things on public forums youre going to be open to being criticized

we dont know or go to your dojo so we cant judge the quality of it unless say you posted videos.

I mean theres some people Ive seen on Facebook who promote trying to get as many students for a dojo...then there are schools who just wont let anyone in.

again we cant judge, in fact most of the closed door schools are traditional so I assume many would call them mcdojos.

ive Seen a few schools that teach utter nonsense so unless your teaching that why worry about it
 
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PhotonGuy

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Where exactly did this happen? The closest I can find is this thread: Belt Rank Progress

But in that thread he does not call your dojo a mcdojo. He A) makes the statement that letting people sign up for tests earns the dojo more money (which is objectively true-if more people sign up for tests, assuming that's something they pay to do, then the dojo gets more money), and B) states that your suggestion of automatic promotion based on time in grade would be a mcdojo (which is pretty much the opposite of what you described your school doing).
It was in some other thread that was even older, its when I described the system for rank advancement at the dojo I was going to at the time, where they run tests about every four months and that it was up to the student if they wanted to sign up and test for their next belt or rank. He called my dojo a mcdojo because of that, because a student can sign up to test at their own discretion. He thinks that students should only be allowed to test when the instructor says they can test and it should be that way for all belts and that if it's not like that you're going to a mcdojo.

I also want to point out that testing is not the same as promoting. Testing means you might promote, depending on if you do well enough on the test. This might sound rather obvious and I might've stated this many times before, but for some reason it keeps flying over some people's heads on this forum.
 
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PhotonGuy

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If you post things on public forums youre going to be open to being criticized
That's fine and Im open to criticism, as long as people stay on track with the point or points Im making.
we dont know or go to your dojo so we cant judge the quality of it unless say you posted videos.
Im not out to prove the worth of my dojo and what's taught there or to advertise it so Im not looking for feedback on this forum as to what other people think about its quality.
I mean theres some people Ive seen on Facebook who promote trying to get as many students for a dojo...then there are schools who just wont let anyone in.
Im very familiar with those dojos that try to get as many students as possible but I couldn't imagine a dojo not letting anyone in, how would they stay in business?
again we cant judge, in fact most of the closed door schools are traditional so I assume many would call them mcdojos.
I would be very wary of a dojo that doesn't allow observations by prospective students and by the general public, but that's just me.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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It was in some other thread that was even older, its when I described the system for rank advancement at the dojo I was going to at the time, where they run tests about every four months and that it was up to the student if they wanted to sign up and test for their next belt or rank. He called my dojo a mcdojo because of that, because a student can sign up to test at their own discretion. He thinks that students should only be allowed to test when the instructor says they can test and it should be that way for all belts and that if it's not like that you're going to a mcdojo.

I also want to point out that testing is not the same as promoting. Testing means you might promote, depending on if you do well enough on the test. This might sound rather obvious and I might've stated this many times before, but for some reason it keeps flying over some people's heads on this forum.
I think you are misremembering. Partially because what you are describing is very similar to that thread, but with a misunderstanding (or misremembering) of the thread-you describe in your thread that system, and he says something similar to it being a mcdojo but is distinctly not referring to your dojo (which you seemed to miss). But mainly because you're indicating it was from an older thread of yours, but that thread is from a month after you joined this site, you only have 6 threads before it, and none of them are about rank advancement at your former dojo.

Unfortunately, this falls in line with how memory works: when you recall something, you're not actually recalling it. You're recreating the memory itself, and then when you're done remembering it, that new memory stores itself in your mind where the old one is. Then the next time you remember it, you're recreating a memory from the new one you stored, and repeating the process. So your memory quite literally changes, almost like an internal game of telephone, and no matter how concrete the memory seems, it's not always accurate as time goes on and you remember it more often.
 

Dirty Dog

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It was in some other thread that was even older, its when I described the system for rank advancement at the dojo I was going to at the time, where they run tests about every four months and that it was up to the student if they wanted to sign up and test for their next belt or rank. He called my dojo a mcdojo because of that, because a student can sign up to test at their own discretion. He thinks that students should only be allowed to test when the instructor says they can test and it should be that way for all belts and that if it's not like that you're going to a mcdojo.

I also want to point out that testing is not the same as promoting. Testing means you might promote, depending on if you do well enough on the test. This might sound rather obvious and I might've stated this many times before, but for some reason it keeps flying over some people's heads on this forum.
You've spent several posts accusing me of something I did not do. You spent months on a thread about how you should be allowed to retract your words. I think now would be a good time to retract your false accusation.
 

Mider

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That's fine and Im open to criticism, as long as people stay on track with the point or points Im making.

Im not out to prove the worth of my dojo and what's taught there or to advertise it so Im not looking for feedback on this forum as to what other people think about its quality.

Im very familiar with those dojos that try to get as many students as possible but I couldn't imagine a dojo not letting anyone in, how would they stay in business?

I would be very wary of a dojo that doesn't allow observations by prospective students and by the general public, but that's just me.
There are many schools that dont allow just anyone in, I never said they cant be observed but many teachers do require an interview.
 
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PhotonGuy

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I think you are misremembering. Partially because what you are describing is very similar to that thread, but with a misunderstanding (or misremembering) of the thread-you describe in your thread that system, and he says something similar to it being a mcdojo but is distinctly not referring to your dojo (which you seemed to miss). But mainly because you're indicating it was from an older thread of yours, but that thread is from a month after you joined this site, you only have 6 threads before it, and none of them are about rank advancement at your former dojo.

Unfortunately, this falls in line with how memory works: when you recall something, you're not actually recalling it. You're recreating the memory itself, and then when you're done remembering it, that new memory stores itself in your mind where the old one is. Then the next time you remember it, you're recreating a memory from the new one you stored, and repeating the process. So your memory quite literally changes, almost like an internal game of telephone, and no matter how concrete the memory seems, it's not always accurate as time goes on and you remember it more often.
So how can you see what I posted back then? I joined back in 2013 and I am not familiar with any method where I can see what I posted that far back. If I am wrong about what I posted and what other people posted back then, then I stand corrected but I would like to know how to check what I posted back then and what other people posted if its possible. I do know this much, my dojo at the time was called a mcdojo by some of the people on this forum because of how students could choose to sign up to test at their own discretion when they were running tests.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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So how can you see what I posted back then? I joined back in 2013 and I am not familiar with any method where I can see what I posted that far back. If I am wrong about what I posted and what other people posted back then, then I stand corrected but I would like to know how to check what I posted back then and what other people posted if its possible. I do know this much, my dojo at the time was called a mcdojo by some of the people on this forum because of how students could choose to sign up to test at their own discretion when they were running tests.
So I'm not 100% sure if this feature is available to non-moderators, but I believe it is. If you need, I can pm you screenshots of the steps in case I mention something you don't see.

  1. Go to your profile. You can reach it by clicking on you name in the top right, then clicking it again from the drop down that appears.
  2. Click on the find button (under your messages stats), then from that dropdown, choose "Find all threads by photonguy"
  3. Scroll to the bottom, and click on 7 to see the last page.
  4. Click on the "view older results" button at the end of that page.
  5. Repeat steps 3/4 until you reach a page saying No results found, then go back a page. Those are your oldest threads.
  6. Theoretically, you could do the same for posts by clicking "find all content by x" rather than find all threads, but that's a lot more that you'd be going through.
If I am missing something, feel free to point that out as well. Otherwise, from what I can tell, dirty dog at least didn't make the claim you said he did in that thread, and he's on record in this thread saying he did not do it as well. I don't have the time to go through that thread again (I linked it earlier if you wanted to), to see if anyone else called your school a mcdojo; but keep in mind many of them are not on here anymore, and of those that are-10 years is a long time for opinions to change.
 
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PhotonGuy

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So I'm not 100% sure if this feature is available to non-moderators, but I believe it is. If you need, I can pm you screenshots of the steps in case I mention something you don't see.

  1. Go to your profile. You can reach it by clicking on you name in the top right, then clicking it again from the drop down that appears.
  2. Click on the find button (under your messages stats), then from that dropdown, choose "Find all threads by photonguy"
  3. Scroll to the bottom, and click on 7 to see the last page.
  4. Click on the "view older results" button at the end of that page.
  5. Repeat steps 3/4 until you reach a page saying No results found, then go back a page. Those are your oldest threads.
  6. Theoretically, you could do the same for posts by clicking "find all content by x" rather than find all threads, but that's a lot more that you'd be going through.
If I am missing something, feel free to point that out as well. Otherwise, from what I can tell, dirty dog at least didn't make the claim you said he did in that thread, and he's on record in this thread saying he did not do it as well. I don't have the time to go through that thread again (I linked it earlier if you wanted to), to see if anyone else called your school a mcdojo; but keep in mind many of them are not on here anymore, and of those that are-10 years is a long time for opinions to change.
Alright thank you for the instructions, I will try it out.
 

Dirty Dog

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Still waiting on the retraction and apology for the false accusations...
 
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PhotonGuy

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So I've checked over some of the really old threads I've started, back in 2013 to be exact, and this is what I've found. First of all I would like to apologize for accusing Dirty Dog of calling my dojo a mcdojo. It was not Dirty Dog, it was James Kovacich who said my dojo sounded like a mcdojo because students could sign up to test for their next belt or rank when they held tests which was about every four months. It was in the thread I started with the title "Belt Rank Progress." Aside from that Im thinking of addressing some of the old posts in the thread and perhaps reviving it as my viewpoints have changed over the years. So this is the update for now.
 
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