Biggest martial art bs stories

[Hanzou]

My point exactly. No, there is no difference. The definition of 'kata' you cite is NOT what it means. As you noted in your own post - the notion that you (and many non Japanese speakers) have is something you have gleaned from an interest in Okinawan Karate, and does not reflect what the word meant and means in current usage.

Just because you and others who don't speak the language want to misappropriate a word does not make it so. Kata does not equate to Karate style solo movements, anywhere outside of Karate. And as you wold surely be aware, Karate is not the entirety of Japanese martial arts.

And yet when we say “kata” in the context of martial arts, everyone knows what we’re talking about, so this semantic exercise you’re peddling is dumb and a waste of time.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yes, it would have absolutely nothing to do with the structure of the typical structure of Karate versus the structure of boxing. You can see it on display in this video here;

BTW, the exact same thing occurred to Chinese Kung fu when it encountered western boxing in the early 20th century, and its happening now with MMA rolling through all the Kung Fu "masters" over there.

What I read is. I'm all Hanzou out today.

By the way in that video, it's clear someone came there with a different goal than the other. But clearly the boxer is trying to land some heavy shots. Literally, the kicks didn't move the gloves upon impact. Even when I light spar, make sure that my strikes made a good impact with the guard. That's the safe thing to hit in terms of sparring so just knock it out of the way. @0:20 he gets that super wind up hook.

Then the guy in the Gi kicks the boxer on the waste and I don't even hear the impact of it. WTF. really? How do your kicks come up short when the opponent is advancing? Then they can't take a hit in the face? The boxers are hitting hard, but it's not like they are going full force. And the backwards running too?

You but with buttons

 

[Buka]

How does everyone know Donnie Yen's Mom? Like literally a Jow Ga Sifu posted a picture of Some Jow Ga students and Dean chin, and when he was naming the people in the picture it was like "Donnie Yen's mother".

She’s one of the most knowledgable Martial Artists on the East coast.

 

[JowGaWolf]

She’s one of the most knowledgable Martial Artists on the East coast.

Oh.. I guess I better read up on her so I'm not walking around looking stupid lol. I never knew. Thanks for the enlightenment.

 

[Hanzou]

What I read is. I'm all Hanzou out today.


By the way in that video, it's clear someone came there with a different goal than the other.

Same goal, different video, same result.

 

[elder999]

How does everyone know Donnie Yen's Mom? Like literally a Jow Ga Sifu posted a picture of Some Jow Ga students and Dean chin, and when he was naming the people in the picture it was like "Donnie Yen's mother".

How can you not???

Bow-sim Mark - Wikipedia

 

[elder999]

And his mother's martial art school is still there

Psst...Word around the campfire was that Pui Chan ran away from Bow SIm Mark
....

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My point exactly. No, there is no difference. The definition of 'kata' you cite is NOT what it means. As you noted in your own post - the notion that you (and many non Japanese speakers) have is something you have gleaned from an interest in Okinawan Karate, and does not reflect what the word meant and means in current usage.

Just because you and others who don't speak the language want to misappropriate a word does not make it so. Kata does not equate to Karate style solo movements, anywhere outside of Karate. And as you wold surely be aware, Karate is not the entirety of Japanese martial arts.

I don't think Hanzou is making a linguistic argument about what kata is. He's talking about the thing he (and really, a lot of us) mean when we say "kata". Is it correct for the orginal language? No. But most loan words aren't, and gain a new meaning - in this case a more limited one.

 

[JowGaWolf]

How can you not???

Bow-sim Mark - Wikipedia

Because I'm allowed to not know everything and everyone. I don't know what else to say. I honesty don't know of many people outside of the martial arts or subject that I'm interested in at the moment. I have severe tunnel vision when it comes to things like that.

 

[BrendanF]

And yet when we say “kata” in the context of martial arts, everyone knows what we’re talking about, so this semantic exercise you’re peddling is dumb and a waste of time.

I can only say I disagree. If your argument is that you're happy being inaccurate, that's fine. Plenty are and it doesn't bother me at all. But I don't see communicating effectively as dumb or a waste of time.

As gpseymour said, loan words do take on new meanings over time. I would say that your use does not reflect the common use. In other words, no, not everyone knows what you're talking about. You're free to believe that though, as I'm free not to.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Same goal, different video, same result.

Why was that karate guy movement was so hyper? It reminds me so one who follows the Martial Art rule of never getting hit. Some people think the goal in Martial Arts to get hit, where others understand that they will get hit, and that the goal is not to be hit, but to not be hit in such a way that cause great injury. Like the whole concept of IRON BODY training is the acceptance of the reality that you will get hit and kicked.

But when I see people trying to not get hit, they get all hyper like that. For me, at least, an opponent that is willing to come to me is a gift.

like this stuff. He's hyper, and you can see he's trying not to get hit vs, blocking and setting up his opponent which is why his sweep attempts fail except for that one he got in. But he had a high sweep failure rate.

Hyper movement reminds me of people who do point sparring like this. I would totally lose because I'm willing to take a hit or kick that I can deflect or get on the inside of.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Same goal, different video, same result.

Video analysis of this.

The boxer understood the weaknesses of this fighter more than the karate guy understood the weakness of the boxer. The karate guy tried to fight the boxer with the mindset of Style A vs Style A and not Style A vs Style B. If I had an upcoming match with a boxer then for the next 6 months I would be training Style A vs Style B. Clearly that didn't happen here.

 

[JowGaWolf]

How can you not???

Bow-sim Mark - Wikipedia

Oh.. I Forgot to say thank you for the link. Thanks. I appreciate it.

 

[Hanzou]

I can only say I disagree. If your argument is that you're happy being inaccurate, that's fine. Plenty are and it doesn't bother me at all. But I don't see communicating effectively as dumb or a waste of time.

As gpseymour said, loan words do take on new meanings over time. I would say that your use does not reflect the common use. In other words, no, not everyone knows what you're talking about. You're free to believe that though, as I'm free not to.

So when I say Kata or forms in traditional martial arts, you have no idea what I’m talking about?

 

[Hanzou]

Why was that karate guy movement was so hyper? It reminds me so one who follows the Martial Art rule of never getting hit. Some people think the goal in Martial Arts to get hit, where others understand that they will get hit, and that the goal is not to be hit, but to not be hit in such a way that cause great injury. Like the whole concept of IRON BODY training is the acceptance of the reality that you will get hit and kicked.

I find this critique of karate curious when Kung Fu exponents don’t fair much better against boxers or MMA fighters. The recent challenge matches in China being glaring examples.

 

[elder999]

Oh.. I Forgot to say thank you for the link. Thanks. I appreciate it.

No worries....it occurs to me that the days I'm speaking of are from when I was closer to your age.......and before you were born.
I knew a student of Dean Chin back in NY, who passed away not too long ago, sadly-a talented photographer and writer as well.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I find this critique of karate curious when Kung Fu exponents don’t fair much better against boxers or MMA fighters. The recent challenge matches in China being glaring examples.

I would probably say the same thing. Any video of kung fu master vs MMA fighter will probably follow along the lines of . MMA fighter understood the kung fu master better than the Kung fu master understood the MMA fighter, Why is the kung fu master's footwork so bad, why is he hyper, it's like he's trying not to get get.

Stuff like that is not a critique on the system. It's a critique on the person. So that doesn't sound curios to me. So whatever you decide to say about kung fu losing please refer to this video lol. All of my future replies to

 

[Hanzou]

I would probably say the same thing. Any video of kung fu master vs MMA fighter will probably follow along the lines of . MMA fighter understood the kung fu master better than the Kung fu master understood the MMA fighter, Why is the kung fu master's footwork so bad, why is he hyper, it's like he's trying not to get get.

Stuff like that is not a critique on the system. It's a critique on the person. So that doesn't sound curios to me. So whatever you decide to say about kung fu losing please refer to this video lol. All of my future replies to

Did you actually watch that video? Dewey says that it keeps happening because the Kung Fu fighters have absolutely no idea what they’re doing, and it essentially breaks down to a fighter versus a non-fighter. So the question becomes, why would a non-fighter believe that his martial art allows him to be able to stand up against an actual fighter?

 

[JowGaWolf]

No worries....it occurs to me that the days I'm speaking of are from when I was closer to your age.......and before you were born.
I knew a student of Dean Chin back in NY, who passed away not too long ago, sadly-a talented photographer and writer as well.

From what I hear, I missed out on a lot of good things in terms of Martial Arts. Things that happened before I was born, or in a location where I didn't live. I lived in Georgia back when I was taking karate and that was the only thing that was around. Superfoot, Chuck norris, Bruce lee, and Kung Fu saturdays were about all that Atlanta had back then.

My personal thoughts is that A lot of people who were really good at martial arts and could actually use it live right around that time before I was born. Maybe 20 years earlier. up to the 70's After that things go down in quality. Martial arts gets commercialized and hollywood gets their hands on kung fu. From the 70's until UFC. Martial arts was what people saw in the Movies.

I still remember as a kid that I tried to fight like this wit friends.

Georgia didn't have much in terms of Martial Arts, We barely had highways lol

 

[JowGaWolf]

So the question becomes, why would a non-fighter believe that his martial art allows him to be able to stand up against an actual fighter?

So what about this do you disagree with?