BG killed while attempting to rob pharmacy

[KenpoTex]

guy tries to rob pharmacy, plainclothes security guy (retired LEO) picks his moment and puts 4 rounds into BG's chest...BG "dead right there"

article with video:
http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/News/Headlines/frtHEAD01EAST021009.htm

 

[myusername]

Sad story all round. So many hurt by this robbers actions. His Mother (Dealing with losing her son), The security guard/retired LEO (who has to live with shooting someone), The pharmacist (Who has to cope with the trauma of having a gun pointed at his head and then seeing someone shot dead in front of him) and the robber himself who lost his life. The only good thing about this story is that no one innocent got killed. The robber may be dead but everyone is still hurting. Not much to feel good about here.

 

[KenpoTex]

Sad story all round. So many hurt by this robbers actions. His Mother (Dealing with losing her son), The security guard/retired LEO (who has to live with shooting someone), The pharmacist (Who has to cope with the trauma of having a gun pointed at his head and then seeing someone shot dead in front of him) and the robber himself who lost his life. The only good thing about this story is that no one innocent got killed. The robber may be dead but everyone is still hurting. Not much to feel good about here.

guess it depends on your point of view, one less bad guy and no loss of innocent life...sounds pretty good to me.

 

[seasoned]

When you decide to feed your habit by means of force with a firearm, it is a recipe for disaster. If the pharmacist would have been killed, it would have been a tragedy indeed, with the robber still at large to kill again. If the security guard/retired LEO, after serving society for 37 years, and making it to retirement, had been killed, this would have been a very sad ending to a long and dangerous career. All society can do is offer help, like it did, to this person that lost his life. In the end it is up to each one of us to find his or her own way in life, sadly enough this person had no one to blame but himself.

 

[Guardian]

guess it depends on your point of view, one less bad guy and no loss of innocent life...sounds pretty good to me.

Not to sound heartless here, but I agree. It's only going to get worse with the economy like it is.

 

[myusername]

When you decide to feed your habit by means of force with a firearm, it is a recipe for disaster. If the pharmacist would have been killed, it would have been a tragedy indeed, with the robber still at large to kill again. If the security guard/retired LEO, after serving society for 37 years, and making it to retirement, had been killed, this would have been a very sad ending to a long and dangerous career. All society can do is offer help, like it did, to this person that lost his life. In the end it is up to each one of us to find his or her own way in life, sadly enough this person had no one to blame but himself.

Couldn't agree more. I was not sympathising with the robber in my post but everyone effected by his actions. Depressing reading.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Sad story all round. So many hurt by this robbers actions. His Mother (Dealing with losing her son), The security guard/retired LEO (who has to live with shooting someone), The pharmacist (Who has to cope with the trauma of having a gun pointed at his head and then seeing someone shot dead in front of him) and the robber himself who lost his life. The only good thing about this story is that no one innocent got killed. The robber may be dead but everyone is still hurting. Not much to feel good about here.

Yes there is.

Someone who tried to impose his will by threatening innocent life was stopped because someone cared and was willing. That is what we ( not just Americans, EVERYONE) need MORE of, ASAFP.

That doesn't negate the grief the criminal's family must feel, nonetheless while I'll grudge the family no tears , I'll shed none myself.

 

[myusername]

guess it depends on your point of view, one less bad guy and no loss of innocent life...sounds pretty good to me.

Not to sound heartless here, but I agree. It's only going to get worse with the economy like it is.

I agree up until a point. If any one needed to lose their life in this situation then the right one definately died. However in my humble opinion I think it a little easy but questionable to celebrate the loss of human life and consider this a "pretty good" story. The people involved have to deal with the psychological impact of this situation for a good time after this event. Life isn't a simple movie script with badly written good guys and bad guys.

In addition, (and I am anticipating a little bit of flaming from this comment but here goes...) none of us here knows the life story of the robber. Please,please understand that I am in no way sympathising with him, what he did was disgusting,aggressive and wrong and he brought his own demise on himself. However, we judging on such little information have no idea of his background and what may have led him to this point. Could be a history of mental illness? Could be a long history of child abuse? Obviously this may not be the case and even if it were would in no way excuse his actions but it would certainly prevent me personally from taking pleasure in reading of his death. He brought it on himself but it doesn't make it nice.

My thoughts are for his mother, the pharmacist and the security guard who are living in the aftermath of this event.

 

[Ahriman]

Background story is good to know, but it doesn't have anything to do with assaults and murders. In a civilian setting, initiating a conflict forces the would-be victim to defend themselves - no matter WHO or WHAT is the attacker. At least here, only police officers may point a gun at you in some given situations- in ANY other case, it's an attempted murder thus you can answer with lethal force using anything, even illegally carried objects, even against a uniformed person.
Even if the attacker is mentally ill, or a kid, murder attempts must be stopped. Background stories can clarify things, can make us understand the motives of the attackers, and so on, but no background story will ever justify murder.
...
Relatives suffer after these events, that's sure. Would-be victims as well. The good guys negating a serious threat using lethal force... some suffer, some don't. I'm glad that a murderer (I know, I know, he never killed anybody, but the difference between a would-be and an actual murderer is only a slight change of mood) is dead and the rest of the mentioned people are alive even is some of them suffer.

 

[MJS]

Things could've turned out much worse than they did. Of course, I'm sure it'll only be a matter of time before the family of this fine upstanding citizen and the ACLU files some crazy lawsuit. After all, I'm sure this guy was a wonderful dad, a great son and was the all star B-Ball player in highschool.

Seriously though....props for the security guard. This was a deadly force situation and he acted accordingly IMO. Does this sound mean and cold hearted? Probably, but instead of this guy trying to better his life and get help for his addiction, he chose a life of crime. For those people, I have no sympathy

 

[myusername]

Background story is good to know, but it doesn't have anything to do with assaults and murders. In a civilian setting, initiating a conflict forces the would-be victim to defend themselves - no matter WHO or WHAT is the attacker. At least here, only police officers may point a gun at you in some given situations- in ANY other case, it's an attempted murder thus you can answer with lethal force using anything, even illegally carried objects, even against a uniformed person.
Even if the attacker is mentally ill, or a kid, murder attempts must be stopped. Background stories can clarify things, can make us understand the motives of the attackers, and so on, but no background story will ever justify murder.
...
Relatives suffer after these events, that's sure. Would-be victims as well. The good guys negating a serious threat using lethal force... some suffer, some don't. I'm glad that a murderer (I know, I know, he never killed anybody, but the difference between a would-be and an actual murderer is only a slight change of mood) is dead and the rest of the mentioned people are alive even is some of them suffer.

I agree with your sentiments entirely. If you read my posts you will see that I am not justifying the would be murderers actions and I am 100% behind the actions of the security guard. There is no excuse for picking up a gun and threatening another human beings life just to feed an addiction. If the robber was desperate and violent enough to do just that he is desperate and violent enough to pull the trigger! The people have an absolute right to defend themselves from such a person. I suppose the point I am making is we can be thankful that the right people survived but is it really right to celebrate someones death?

When bringing potential background in to this I am trying highlight that this is possibly nothing but a tragic story. Whether the robber got what he deserved is not an issue for me it is the idea that I should be happy about it because it is one less "BG" in the world that concerns me. In my humble opinion I think you are very, very right when you say no background can justify murder and the guy needed to be stopped. But for me this does not negate the fact that if this guy had such a hypothetical background that it is a depressing end to a depressing story. So I can be thankful that no one innocent got hurt, I can be thankful that this guy is now unable to hurt anybody else but I personally will not take any joy in it.

 

[arnisador]

It's good to hear this ended well but indeed here are always victims--including the man who shot who may feel guilty (regardless of whether we feel he should) or be otherwise affected by the incident.

It's only going to get worse with the economy like it is.

Yup.

 

[hocuspocus]

One real question we all must answer, is how will we react in the same situation.

• Would we hesitate, or would we pull the trigger?
• Can we depend on ourselves to do the right thing - meaning, snuff the bad guy - at the right time?
• Or, better yet, can our loved ones depend on us to do the right thing at the right time?

It's important to know this about ourselves. It's important to do this inner work on yourself, so that you will know what to expect. And, perhaps so that you can ready yourself for any guilty feelings you may have afterwards.

Would I feel guilty? A dead bad guy is less troublesome than a live bad guy. Less drain on the system. Yes, I'm that "cold" about it. To hell with his family.

If I just saved an innocent person's life, it's good enough for me.

 

[Aiki Lee]

A pathetic end to a pathetic human being.

 

[Thesemindz]

Could be a history of mental illness? Could be a long history of child abuse? Obviously this may not be the case and even if it were would in no way excuse his actions but it would certainly prevent me personally from taking pleasure in reading of his death. He brought it on himself but it doesn't make it nice.

While these questions have merit from an academic standpoint, they have no bearing on the incident. There is some usefulness in asking these questions because they can help us predict and prevent future violence, but they don't mean anything to a minimum wage employee at a pharmacy who has a gun shoved in his face.

Too often, people want to ask what could have caused this person to act in such a despicable manner, as though the causes of his actions could in some way mitigate them. There is no mitigating factor which excuses violent assault on innocent people.

I understand what you mean. I understand that you aren't trying to excuse his behavior. I'm not attacking you on this. However, too many will ask these questions as though he is the real victim. He is not.

He is a monster. He is beneath pity. He is an indefensable animal, with no regard for human life. There is much suffering in this world today, however, some people choose to try harder, and some people choose to prey on those around them. His actions determined his worth, and in my mind, he died without any at all.

You are right when you say none of us here know the life story of this man. But that is only because he chose to throw his life away before he had a chance to tell us. He didn't have to. He chose to. He chose to throw that life away when he chose to threaten the life of an innocent person. Whether that night, or some other, his actions could only result in the loss of his own life, either through death or imprisonment.

And that is no one's fault but his own. Not his abusive father's. Not the priest who touched him in church. Not the school system that failed him, or the state welfare check he didn't recieve, or the institutional racism he was a victim of, or the health care provider that denied his claim. It was his decision. It was his fault.

And yes, as sad a story as this is, at least it has a happy ending.


-Rob

 

[Deaf Smith]

The robber is in the prison of no parole. He won't get out to do this again.

When you bring a weapon to harm people, when you tell them you will kill them if they don't submit, then your life is forfeit. You started the ball rolling once you came in the shop and threatend everyone. As far as I'm consearned the robber has all the blame. No matter how it turns out, he started the ball rolling.

Yes the ex-cop might have nightmares. The mother of the robber lost a child (we are all children to our mothers.) And any bystander may have trumatic memories. BUT, it was the robber who came in with the weapon and started it. No one else.

The ex-cop, or any civilian, that tries to stop them are doing their DUTY. Doing their civic responsibility. They have no fault. Now legally they might be sued, and if they are real idiots and shoot up everyone else they can be charged, but... they are not the one's that started it and if the robber expires, then all is well.

The ex-cop did the right thing. He is welcome at my table anytime.

Deaf

 

[grydth]

While I'm not going to celebrate the man's death, he brought it all on himself.... and he had some help.

This thread brings back memories of the recent thread on parents who criticized the police for shooting their son... the one who was running around campus dressed as a Nazi soldier and pointing a real k98 mauser at the cops... the same rifle Dad had gotten back for him after a prior incident.

No, parents, the "system" most certainly did not fail your kids. You did.

The system did work. It protected the rest of us from the violent nuts you spawned and set loose upon us.

 

[arnisador]

No, parents, the "system" most certainly did not fail your kids. You did.

Often enough nature did. Some children have issues that no parent could cure--the large number of teenage suicides in good homes is one example. In other cases the local environment is tough to counteract. And am I the only one who ever took a philosophy course where they asked if you'd rob a pharmacy to get medicine for your dying spouse that you couldn't afford (which at today's prices of tens of thousands of dollars per dose for some medicines is quite plausible)? Jean Valjean, anyone?

So, this situation was resolved well but that doesn't mean there's a "bad guy" in every case. That's comic book thinking. There doesn't always have to be a pure evil individual involved to make it a case of self-defense. You could defend yourself against a drunken uncle--in the wrong but not necessarily Damien himself.

 

[grydth]

I grow weary of parents blaming other humans for their childrens' depravity and demise. Once upon a time there was shame in rearing a child who went on to prey upon others; now it is blame the others.

The example I cited of the university gunman included in its facts that the rifle had been confiscated once already. The father retrieved it - where was the lesson in responsibility, the lesson in safe firearms handling that every parent owes every child before putting a lethal weapon in the child's hands?

These facts are distinguishable from Les Miserables, by the way. No noble criminal here, not victimized by a Javert, either.

Are you correct that problems exist that a parent cannot handle. Unquestionably,yes......... but if this is one of those cases, the mom should say that, and support it. " Sorry. We were overwhelmed. People tried, but nobody could have saved junior."

Instead, we see from her obvious defensive if not delusional thinking..... he wasn't crazy.... he wouldn't have shot anyone..... "the system" failed.

How many times do we read such claptrap in stories of killings? No, its never their child and its never their parenting. One wonders how often that failure to face reality aids and abets the violence that follows.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I grow weary of parents blaming other humans for their childrens' depravity and demise. Once upon a time there was shame in rearing a child who went on to prey upon others; now it is blame the others.

The example I cited of the university gunman included in its facts that the rifle had been confiscated once already. The father retrieved it - where was the lesson in responsibility, the lesson in safe firearms handling that every parent owes every child before putting a lethal weapon in the child's hands?

These facts are distinguishable from Les Miserables, by the way. No noble criminal here, not victimized by a Javert, either.

Are you correct that problems exist that a parent cannot handle. Unquestionably,yes......... but if this is one of those cases, the mom should say that, and support it. " Sorry. We were overwhelmed. People tried, but nobody could have saved junior."

Instead, we see from her obvious defensive if not delusional thinking..... he wasn't crazy.... he wouldn't have shot anyone..... "the system" failed.

How many times do we read such claptrap in stories of killings? No, its never their child and its never their parenting. One wonders how often that failure to face reality aids and abets the violence that follows.

How about "100% of the time".