Beware of Western Medicine

[riversidetaichi]

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use your own judgement on the type of healing
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[arnisador]

Beware of Western Medicine? Seriously? Isn't it what's primarily used in China these days?

 

[DennisBreene]

Beware of Western Medicine? Seriously? Isn't it what's primarily used in China these days?

I'll take a peer reviewed controlled clinical trial for my advice on medical therapy any day over that diatribe. I must have been absent the day they covered "tests you can get away with if they have insurance".

 

[Xue Sheng]

Beware of Western Medicine? Seriously? Isn't it what's primarily used in China these days?

Actually no, there is a rather nice combination of Western Medicine and Traditional Chinese Medicine in the hospitals. There are certain things that Western Medicine treats better and there are certain things that TCM treats better and the doctors of Western medicine and the doctors of traditional Chinese medicine work rather well together.

But in China the TCM Doctors have considerably more training that you might get her in the USA. Another issue is that a lot of places here that teach TCM that are training to treat the result but in China they are trained to look for and threat the cause which basically says if we both show up with a headache we may not get the same treatment. And I do not think you will find a TCM doc these days that will tell you to beware of western medicine. They do not like the over usage of strong medications but they do know there are things that it does rather well.

 

[Xue Sheng]

If anyone out there has health issiues
use your own judgement on the type of healing
you need to improve your situation. Check out this
video as I share some of my experiences.

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It has been shown that many doctors over medicine, they admitted it, however it does have its merits.

My wife is a TCM Doctor trained in China who use to work in a rather large hospital there and she worked alongside of Western Medical doctors. Here she gets a lot of patients from western medical doctors. On the flip side of that she has gotten calls from people looking for treatment for certain types of issues and told them they need to see a western physician.

WE get into this argument on MT and other places about which one is better than the other or we want scientific proof or we call it bogus. Fact is, in China, they work rather well together. As to proof, one of the most populated countries on the planet has been working with TCM, and did ok for years. And to be honest there are studies that have been done, but the Chinese, being the Chinese, don't much care what other think and many of those studies are in Chinese and not translated. However there are studies done by the World Health Organization out there and anyone wishing to learn more can go find them.

I get acupuncture for my knees and shoulder, I take herbs for sinus and cholesterol but when I had chest pain the other day I went to my regular MD and my wife wanted me to go there.

In China a TCM doctor can sen a patient for x-rays and all sorts of tests if they think it is necessary, here they can't. In China a person working in a hospital as a TCM doctor is a doctor and just as much of a doctor as the western medical doctor they work with

 

[cdunn]

Remember, a serious chunk of western medication is, at its root, herbalism. We've identified the things that actually do the heavy lifting, purified them, and given them consistent doses. Any given herbalist system will have things that work, and things that don't; the real trick is sorting out them out from each other and the placebo/nocebo effects, and handling the dose/response curve. Foxglove (digitalis) is the classic example of the danger inherent in herbalism - it does a good job of making the heart beat harder, but roughly 2-3 times the minimum dose you need to get a response is enough to kill. Now, quickly - how much of the two active chemicals are in any given plant, and in what ratio?

Other times, the best thing that can happen to a patient is to have attention paid to them. This doesn't happen very well in a Science Based Medicine office, because of sheer overload.

It's when you start dealing with things that rely on principles that deny fundamental understandings of biology or physics that things start to get really dodgy, and you need to run away.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think Xue makes a really good point that they work well together! There is room for both and personally I am involved heavily on the western side because my wife, sister, brother in law, etc, etc, etc, are all doctors.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think Xue makes a really good point that they work well together! There is room for both and personally I am involved heavily on the western side because my wife, sister, brother in law, etc, etc, etc, are all doctors.

I was rasied in Western medicine and married into Eastern

My mother and father meant working in the OR and my father was in every aspect of it in the navy, but not a doctor, and retired a civilian Hospital admin. My mother was an OR RN. I have cousins who are Western Medical Doctors and then..... I meant a woman from China who was a TCM Doctor.

 

[jasonbrinn]

There is no such thing as "Western" medicine or any other kind of "x" medicine. There is ONLY medicine and all the other stuff not proven to work yet.

 

[crushing]

There is no such thing as "Western" medicine or any other kind of "x" medicine. There is ONLY medicine and all the other stuff not proven to work yet.

This sounds like something a Foundation for Reason Science follower might say.

 

[Makalakumu]

I watched a BBC documentary on Acupuncture and was astounded to see open heart surgery being performed with no other anesthetic but needling. I was completely floored. That doesn't even seem possible.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have not heard that before I shall have to ask if that was ever done at my wife's hospital. However my better half use to work in the ER in a hospital in China and did a lot with acupuncture and pain, and some of those were pretty nasty and she also did some work in the OR but I am not sure what on. I know it is used a lot to deal with cancer pain as well

 

[DennisBreene]

There is no such thing as "Western" medicine or any other kind of "x" medicine. There is ONLY medicine and all the other stuff not proven to work yet.

If you quiery the NIH database on articles about accupuncture, there are thousands of journal references. Unfortunately for this American monoglot, they are in Chinese I think there is at least enough of a body of work to grant that scientific method is being used in Asia and I suspect there is support for concepts and techniques that are foreign to western medicine. So I agree with the sentiment but I also see the cultural "divide" at work. I believe NIH was actively investigating multiple aspects of "alternative" medicine until funding was cut. I think people gravitate to what they percieve works and to what they can relate to. Unfortunatly, medical care in this country is becomming so constrained by insurance company protocols and reimbursement that the key element to practicing good medicine is being lost. I'm refering to taking the time to talk to your patient and to listen to them. It was deeply ingrained in my training that "if you listen to your patient closely and long enough, they will tell you what's wrong with them". And they do. And if you take the time to explain the issues to them in language they can relate to, they do understand. The conflict is that the time required is uncompensated and usually neglected in a busy office. So patients leave the visit without understanding what has been said and uncertain about their care. I don't blame them. Is it unreasonable that people then find practitioners who spend time with them and accept the advice they are given. From the patient's perspective, the science of medicine is only as good as their trust in the practioner.

 

[Chris Parker]

If anyone out there has health issiues
use your own judgement on the type of healing
you need to improve your situation. Check out this
video as I share some of my experiences.

Without getting into the discussion of different forms of medical philosophies (I think it's been covered quite well by Xue and others, really), a few little pointers to help your time here.

You might want to consider where such posts are best suited... personally, I don't see anything in this that related to "general martial arts", or even martial arts at all. On the other hand, I think this would be an interesting discussion in the "Traditional Healing Arts", or even "Health Tips for the Martial Artist" forums in the "Mind Body and Spirit" section.

If you like our posts join the Riverside Tai chi Community
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I'd also recommend getting hold of Bob Hubbard to determine if this qualifies as "advertising"... although it's a "free service" you're offering, you're coming across as attempting to use this forum to generate traffic to your site... which is against the TOS you agreed to when signing up. Just a friendly heads up.

 

[riversidetaichi]

Thank you all for your comments. I didn't realize there were so many doctors on this forum. My goal wasn't to piss anyone off but to share my experiences. My experiences have not been pretty on the western medicine side but have had much better results with Classical Chinese Medicine. I know there are health issues that will need the attention of a western doctor but in my case the results of eastern medicine speak wonders.

 

[riversidetaichi]

I'm not trying to advertise anything on this forum, just sharing my ideas and experiences. As far as driving traffic to my website I have plenty of traffic from other means such as FB and other social networking sites. Thank you for the tip on better suited forums, I appreciate it.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Thank you all for your comments. I didn't realize there were so many doctors on this forum. My goal wasn't to piss anyone off but to share my experiences. My experiences have not been pretty on the western medicine side but have had much better results with Classical Chinese Medicine. I know there are health issues that will need the attention of a western doctor but in my case the results of eastern medicine speak wonders.

For the record, I am not a Doctor, but my wife is and she is a doctor of Traditional Chinese medicine from China. But in China, in the hospital she worked in she was just a doctor, just like the people who were trained in Western Medicine that she worked with in her hospital.

 

[mitsubishi]

Selecting the best available medicine is the more critical decisions.Thanks for sharing about such an important issue.I was looking for such information.

 

[GaryR]

I prefer Evidence based medicine. If I want a placebo, I will conjure one up on my own.

An interesting video, alternative medicine segment about 50 minutes in:

The crap people peddle as "alternative medicine" is snake oil pure and simple. Placebo is a powerful thing, but it only goes so far: people have died because they chose myth over science, and didn't want to go through all those pesky "tests" you complained about. Give medical advice when you have an MD and have some real non-subjective peer reviewed research, your a danger to society peddling Qi medical myths et al.

Sorry for the bluntness, cheers brother, I wish you the best.


G

 

[Zero]

I am a "Westerner" and my mother and some members of my surrounding family are Western medical pratitioners (I am not!). I have until relatively recently taken a "if you are sick/getting sick, medicate (ie drugs!) the hell out of it" approach.

A couple of years back, I developed a very troubling cough that came on every night when sleeping on my back, this kept me awake and was a real problem. After several months of trying store counter medicine I went to the local doctor and then escalated to several national leading nose and throat and respiratory specialisits (thank God for work funded medical cover!!). Each apporach, after scans, xrays, MRI's and you name it, was to use various chemicals and sprays, almost a shotgun approach, with no luck. I then went to a Chinese doctor (who had been a doctor in China) and after a thorough review including talking extensively about diet and providing herbal remedies, the cough disapeared after a couple of months and has not come back. The approach was a lot more face time and discussing life aspects, it turns out I had developed an intolerance to too much milk so it increases the mucas and leads to the irritation and cough. By cutting out milk and caffine the cough has gone and the herbal teas seemed to soothe the irritated throat during that period. I was also given accupuncture.

I know there are certainly things which are better suited to Western medicine and which Chinese medicine cannot deal with but after spending a year going through the Western system with no luck and seeing the marked difference in approach under the Eastern approach, with success, this was a real eye opener. I guess if a Western doctor had taken the time to discus diet etc they could also have simply deduced this but the Chinese approach did strike me as far more holistic.

Sorry for the personal story, and obviously there are quacks to be avoided across all disciplines, but I do think Eastern medicine can benefit a lot of people and is at least in my experience less invasive or likely to fall back on trying to medicate the symptoms.