Belt Rankings - Keeping up with the times!

[C.E.Jackson]

I wrote this article and posted it on my web site as a response to the need to award recognition often to students in this day and age. This ranking system would keep the "Full Black Belt" reserved for students that complete the base requirements while still awarding rank with greater frequency.

Toss the idea around some and see what everybody thinks.
:asian:



It is my belief that a “Full Black Belt” or “First Degree Black Belt” or ShoDan” should not be awarded till a student has full knowledge of the basis of his/her Self Defense System and Forms.

That is NOT to say that continuing education, personal skill development and advanced studies should not be required beyond Black Belt, including “advanced” Self Defense applications and Forms.

I also firmly believe that a “student” should also be a “teacher” somewhere in this advancement. This teaching experience provides a wealth of “new knowledge” as the student must now look at the material he/she is teaching in several new perspectives in order to pass this knowledge on to others.

I am aware of the “business” needs however and can see a place for an updated system for recognizing a student’s progress through the system more often than in days past.

In this light I have divided the American Kenpo System into three basic levels.

1. The “Student” Level.

The Yellow Belt Introducton techniques and the lower 96 Techniques. This material is learned in stages of 16 and includes the ranks of:

0. 16 Yellow (I have 16 Introductory Techniques rather than 10)

1. 16 Orange
2. 32 Purple
3. 48 Blue
4. 64 Green
5. 80 Brown
6. 96 Advanced Brown (completes the "Base" Techniques)



2. The “Instructor” Level

This level includes the 48 “Advanced” Techniques and the upper 96 Extension Techniques. This material is learned in stages of 24 and includes the ranks of:

1. 24 Orange
2. 48 Purple (completes the Advanced Techniques)

3. 24 Blue
4. 48 Green
5. 72 Brown

These ranks are designated by a black belt with a color stripe the length of the belt. (Provisional Black Belts)

6. 96 First Degree Black Belt (Full Black Belt)
(completes the Extension Techniques and completes ALL the basis for the Self Defense System and Forms 1-6)


3. The “Black Belt” Level.

This level is for “Advanced” studies beyond the “base” Self Defense System.
:asian:

 

[Nightingale]

not sure how you're counting those techniques...are you adding 16 each time?

 

[C.E.Jackson]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

not sure how you're counting those techniques...are you adding 16 each time?

16 Introductory Techniques
96 (by 16) Base Techniques
48 (by 24) Advanced Techniques
98 (by 24) Extension Techniques

I restart the count at each of these catagories.
Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Rainman]

The system is already set up to do that. 154 self defence teks- up to long 5 and the various sets- the offensive teks- demonstraited teaching ability- grading up through the ranks pertaining to concepts theories and principles- and to top it off a written thesis. That is just for JI. It basically begins and ends with basics and being able to put them together effieciently in the form of combinations. If the basics suck so does everything else no matter how much motion someone knows they will only become effective instead of efficient.

I really think the system is pretty much laid out- the only real consideration is how many teks per belt level (both offensive and defensive). The descrepensies in black belts are due to different standards and understandings of the basics. If there was a universal standard set there, BB AK'ers would dominate space and time according to the usage of Concepts, theories and principles. It couldn't be any other way. Unfortunately that is not the case...

I don't think a lot of deviation of Mr. Parkers written curiculum is needed. That is just the bare bones of the system, there is much, much more besides the written curiculum.

:asian:

 

[Nightingale]

that makes a little more sense... which techniques are you putting where?

I think my instructor has a slightly different system for what is taught when, but our ranks (White Yellow Orange Purple Blue Green Brown Black) is the same as most others. personally, I like the current system, except that I feel a little stagnated at brown belt, since my instructor has no new requirements between brown and black other than to really master what we already know. Brown belt for us is a teaching rank, where you work on reinforcing your own skills by teaching them to others. We learn 96 techniques as colored belts (the rest are extensions or gun defenses and learned after black belt, when hopefully we'll be smart enough to know when to use a gun technique and when to just do whatever the guy says) with around 20 or so for each belt. I feel a little stuck right now, because even though I can see myself improving, I have no real, tangible way to track my progress like I had with my other ranks. With the other ranks it was "ok. I know the required basics, forms, and techniques...must be getting close to test time" and with brown, its a lot more subjective.

 

[C.E.Jackson]

The Techniques are presented in the order prescribed by Ed Parker. The only difference is where in the progress and how rank is awarded. As you can see I use the color ranks for the lower half of the system and "Sub-Black" ranks also using the colors within the sub-black belts leading to solid Black Belt for the upper half of the system. There is much more to learn after Black Belt. This progress I consider Advanced" and would suggest Black 2nd - 3rd etc. as recognition for this development. I

'm NOT suggesting re-arainging the order or total number of techniques. I think the order has purpose and is just fine as Ed Parker Set it.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by C.E.Jackson
The Techniques are presented in the order prescribed by Ed Parker. I think the order has purpose and is just fine as Ed Parker Set it.

Yes, but you fail to say that it was set back in the late '70's over 30 years ago.

I studied with him for several years until his passing. The current curriculums is what he was "currently" working on at the time of his passing.

So I believe that he WAS updating the material because I was there and involved in it.

You are welcome to use what ever material you wish of course but just don't say that it was with Ed Parkers approval and not date it properly.

:asian:

 

[Nightingale]

how would you figure out which division to enter them in tournaments? your greenbelts wouldn't have the same experience as other greenbelts, because you promote faster...

not challenging, just questioning.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Amount of time spent training in your martial art. Around here they are starting to ask on the registration forms for x amount of months or years training.
Jason Farnsworth

 

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

Amount of time spent training in your martial art. Around here they are starting to ask on the registration forms for x amount of months or years training.
Jason Farnsworth

Now that is a good Idea! That includes all arts ever trained in. Not just thier current fancy, right?

Michael

So how many years for Mr. C..................hehehehehehe

 

[Nightingale]

hmmmm....I dunno if that's exactly fair.

i started martial arts 13 years ago and have trained consistantly since then. However because of logistics, I had to switch between Kenpo, TKD, Aikido, Hapkido, and Jiu Juitsu. I haven't been with any of them long enough to get a black belt and definitely couldn't compete with someone else who had been training consistantly in the same style for 13 years.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by AvPKenpo
So how many years for Mr. C..................hehehehehehe

I'm just a local!

only 31 years for me in Kenpo!

Beginning Black Belt......

:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

If you've been studying for 13yrs. then you should decide with your instructor if you should have on a brown or black belt. That's when you enter a tournament. When you break it down for younger kids to teenagers some get a little scared while standing next to say someone wearing a green belt when you yellow. I seen this happen as I was a judge at a tournament. This one younger teen said I have a yellow belt & he has a green that's not fair for me. Well in the system of the green belt his belts went white, green, etc. so that person was on their second belt as well. Now I will give you a reversal of this theory. When I trained with the gentleman that was in the olympic trials he only had 2 hardcore students. They trained 7 days a week for hrs. upon hrs. This instructor only had 2 students who could take this abuse and punishment and would stay. He promoted 1 student to yellow and the other to green. When these 2 students went into regular tournaments he had them wear black belts. They placed 1st in fighting all of the time. Each of these two won local tourn., U.S.T.U tournaments, Jr. Olymics and so on. I've trained for 13 yrs. myself come next month. "My Opinion" is whether or not you had a black in an art or not I think you should wear a black belt if you enter a tournament.

 

[C.E.Jackson]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



Yes, but you fail to say that it was set back in the late '70's over 30 years ago.

I studied with him for several years until his passing. The current curriculums is what he was "currently" working on at the time of his passing.

So I believe that he WAS updating the material because I was there and involved in it.

You are welcome to use what ever material you wish of course but just don't say that it was with Ed Parkers approval and not date it properly.

:asian:

For clarification:
I present the Ed Parker System of 250 Technques in the order he set in Vol. 5. The rank designation is the only thing I'm adjusting as well as adding more material to Yellow Belt.

As far as to tournament positioning... Thats not's still about right.

It should take about a year to move to purple belt (the first intermediate rank for tournaments).
It should take about a year to advance to brown

and about a year and a half to advance to my first "provisional black".

A year in novice "orange" division

A year in intermediate "green" division

About 1.5 years in advanced "brown" division.

Thats about three and a half years to Black Belt Division.

 

[C.E.Jackson]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

If you've been studying for 13yrs. then you should decide with your instructor if you should have on a brown or black belt. That's when you enter a tournament. When you break it down for younger kids to teenagers some get a little scared while standing next to say someone wearing a green belt when you yellow. I seen this happen as I was a judge at a tournament. This one younger teen said I have a yellow belt & he has a green that's not fair for me. Well in the system of the green belt his belts went white, green, etc. so that person was on their second belt as well. Now I will give you a reversal of this theory. When I trained with the gentleman that was in the olympic trials he only had 2 hardcore students. They trained 7 days a week for hrs. upon hrs. This instructor only had 2 students who could take this abuse and punishment and would stay. He promoted 1 student to yellow and the other to green. When these 2 students went into regular tournaments he had them wear black belts. They placed 1st in fighting all of the time. Each of these two won local tourn., U.S.T.U tournaments, Jr. Olymics and so on. I've trained for 13 yrs. myself come next month. "My Opinion" is whether or not you had a black in an art or not I think you should wear a black belt if you enter a tournament.

I agree! A student should be placed in whatever division his/her skills dictate and for the tournament wear the Belt Color of his/her division. - Orange - Green - Brown - Black.
I have my students do this!

 

[Goldendragon7]

Although you do have a point....... sort of....... If you haven't earned one..... you best not even touch one. I have students that have been in rank for years..... but are still green or Brown. And that's where they stay until they move up. Tournament or otherwise. While they may be excellent students there is still a mysterious mental side of the Black Belt. If you allow students to just throw on any rank they want because of a tournament or some sort of competition....... then what does that belt really mean. What if that's all they want is to compete in tournaments? If you allow them to wear black then they may as well become one for real.

I have seen many of these "Tournament Black Belts" many years after their tournament days are over ....... desire to start studios (most have left their original instructor for what ever reason), amazing............ what rank do you think they wear..... of course ..... the Black Belt they have become.

Well, now you know why there are so many Black Belts out there that may have good skills in some area but lack big doses of knowledge in others ........ because they never leaned the complete systems anyway. Now, I said many not all... some were also products of extremely poor instructors that promoted them and passed on the weak gene pool. Still others, that are ego and power driven, promote, double promote and even "Multiple" promote (several ranks at one time) on time, money, friendship, or God knows what the criteria is, and not true system knowledge and work, :rofl: one well known black belt even has the power to promote another to 10th Black Belt all by himself since he is so great and (the price was right) was a war hero!! WHAT EVER!!!!!!!!!! Each to his own. Me myself, I really enjoy legitimacy and NOT fraud.

But sometime I'll let you know how I really feel ...... If you ask.

:asian:

 

[C.E.Jackson]

Mr. "C",
Do you present the Techniques in a different order than in Vol. 5???
I know you use the "16" system which awards rank in different places, but is the order re-arrainged as well???

Rank system I am now using is basicly the "16" system except the "black" ranks are "Multi-Level Provisional" black ranks rather than "Mult-Level Full" Black Belts. I reserve a "Full Black Belt for completetion of the written material (Techniques and Forms1-6).
Multi-Levels of Black Belt for Continuing studies and time in rank.

I make NO CLAIM that this is ANY ONE's Idea but my own.

I use Ed Parker's TEchniques in the order as I know them and Ed Parker's Forms. So I claim to be teaching Ed Parker's American Kenpo. Is this Improper???

 

[jfarnsworth]

Mr. C. I can definately see your point of view. I never thought of people changing in the martial arts in that way. I'm sure that is completely possible and probably has happened. I can say that almost everyone that I have trained with has had humility in their training. The two guys I talked about in my post, after the tourn. were over they put their yellow & green belts back on and got their tails kicked in hour after hour and day after day. I haven't personally come across people in which you spoke about around here. I guess I'm kind of thinking everyone is like me. Although I don't go to tournaments anymore & think they have their place for training purposes I don't promote them, but do think they have value. Does that make any sense to anyone (I hope so). My personal thought is however if nightengale is going on 13 amount of yrs. of training she should put on a black belt for the day and take it off when it is over. Just my 2 pennies on this subject.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

 

[C.E.Jackson]

I don't think putting on a belt to signify your placement in a competition catagory is to assume the rank of "Full Black Belt" in what ever your current art may be.

Just by having Black Belt competion skills means does not mean your a "Full Black Belt."
(altho according to Jim Harrison it does )

Competion has it's place, but in no way can signify a person's Knowledge" level.

Skill Level and Knowledge Level frequently are seperated by some distance.

Competion Rank and System Rank perhaps should be two different animals all together.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth My personal thought is however if nightengale is going on 13 amount of yrs. of training she should put on a black belt for the day and take it off when it is over.

I understand and value your view point, however I just disagree, My point is that her Instructor "Dave Brock" knows what he is doing with her training and I trust him with her training as I expect everyone else to do with my students...... Nobody knows my students better than me, an only I know what I have in my lesson plan for that individual... that is between us.

Here is where you need to let the instructor do his/her job.... until they prove ineffective with results. I have a very long track record of fine students.... and intend to continue it much farther, lol

Much respect.....
:asian: