Bad instructor. What to do????

drop bear

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Maybe I was being a bit oversimplistic. The helmet will definitely help protect from road rash, as severe as you mention. But if your head is sliding along the pavement at a decent speed, chances are pretty high youre going to break your neck. The helmet isnt going to protect you from that.

Again, Im not a motorcycle guy, so take my opinions as you will. I could be way off.

If the helmet doesn't catch you should be ok.

Coming off a motorcycle is very much. It is not the fall it is the sudden stop at the end.
 

_Simon_

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... went to a seminar today and there were 3 instructors, two were guests. One of which I considered to be not so great an instructor at all... sounds similar to the OP situation.

Called out a 13 year old black belt (amongst others) and asked them to demonstrate particular sequences, called them basically crap, 'ranked' them 3.5/10, and said he's going back to his dojo and he's going to have to tell them that this dojo doesn't show much 'spirit'. To a 13 year old.

He was a fairly high rank, but in no way do I think that's acceptable. NOR motivating in any way. I felt completely uninspired by him. The kid actually did great, really sharp technique, power etc. I think there may be some leeway to higher grades at times, and as though because they're a higher grade it's justification to treat others like dirt.

I was close to just walking out. There's pushing people to perform with more oomph and power (encouragement, sharing exciting and energy), then there's overly critical, making a kid feel guilty in front of his whole club that he's letting them all down and giving them a bad rep. There were more instances too, but it reminds me of the movie 'Whiplash' (not sure who's seen it, I've only seen clips), but to what degree would one subject oneself to that behaviour in order to just get 'good' at something? At what cost? It's interesting...

Really is context dependent, and important to view the instructor without bias, and I'm curious about updates from the OP.
 

Tez3

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Called out a 13 year old black belt (amongst others) and asked them to demonstrate particular sequences, called them basically crap, 'ranked' them 3.5/10, and said he's going back to his dojo and he's going to have to tell them that this dojo doesn't show much 'spirit'. To a 13 year old.


I suspect that the instructor was making a point, at the student's expense about having such young people with black belts. I really don't like young black belts but wouldn't take it out on them, not their fault though if they have an attitude they will be told but then I would do that to anyone with attitude.
 

_Simon_

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I suspect that the instructor was making a point, at the student's expense about having such young people with black belts. I really don't like young black belts but wouldn't take it out on them, not their fault though if they have an attitude they will be told but then I would do that to anyone with attitude.

Yeah it didn't seem based on the fact he was a young black belt, and nor did he have any attitude. I would understand if he was showing disrespect that the instructor would call him up on it, but that wasn't the case.. was just deflating, and wasn't motivating or encouraging.
 

dvcochran

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... went to a seminar today and there were 3 instructors, two were guests. One of which I considered to be not so great an instructor at all... sounds similar to the OP situation.

Called out a 13 year old black belt (amongst others) and asked them to demonstrate particular sequences, called them basically crap, 'ranked' them 3.5/10, and said he's going back to his dojo and he's going to have to tell them that this dojo doesn't show much 'spirit'. To a 13 year old.

He was a fairly high rank, but in no way do I think that's acceptable. NOR motivating in any way. I felt completely uninspired by him. The kid actually did great, really sharp technique, power etc. I think there may be some leeway to higher grades at times, and as though because they're a higher grade it's justification to treat others like dirt.

I was close to just walking out. There's pushing people to perform with more oomph and power (encouragement, sharing exciting and energy), then there's overly critical, making a kid feel guilty in front of his whole club that he's letting them all down and giving them a bad rep. There were more instances too, but it reminds me of the movie 'Whiplash' (not sure who's seen it, I've only seen clips), but to what degree would one subject oneself to that behaviour in order to just get 'good' at something? At what cost? It's interesting...

Really is context dependent, and important to view the instructor without bias, and I'm curious about updates from the OP.
When I first started my MA journey, back in the mid 80's, I would say I was wiling to accept any critique. So much of the post for this thread are about semantics and delivery. Two people who deliver the same message will be received completely different. "You are doing that wrong" will be taken very differently said by different people. It is the little things we sense in direct contact conversation. Is the delivery nervous, aggressive, passive, weak, and so on. Is the person animated, stoic, engaged. These are the things we will never get from discussions on the forum because we were not there to see and FEEL them. Also the receptors are going to be different. For example, the OP is the parent of the student in question. Apparently, the student has some mild deficit so understandably the parent is protective. Overly protective, maybe. In the same vein, a new student is wide eyed and usually overloaded with information so correction is slower and usually not well received. In contrast, a mature black belt should be able to receive criticism better and be able to parse out at least some degree of unnecessary, incorrect, or even embarrassing critique.
My GM is 84 so he is way past teaching with heavily physical example. Lately, he has really been on me about teaching more verbally and by explanation. Hard to do when you tend to compare your current self to your 25-30 year old self. I do understand it is important as a BB of any rank to know how to be "deep" in your understanding and teaching of your MA.
I do hope the OP posts again and let us know how things are going.
 

dvcochran

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Yeah it didn't seem based on the fact he was a young black belt, and nor did he have any attitude. I would understand if he was showing disrespect that the instructor would call him up on it, but that wasn't the case.. was just deflating, and wasn't motivating or encouraging.
Again, we have no clue if there was attitude from the young BB instructor. We were not there.
 

Tez3

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Yeah it didn't seem based on the fact he was a young black belt, and nor did he have any attitude. I would understand if he was showing disrespect that the instructor would call him up on it, but that wasn't the case.. was just deflating, and wasn't motivating or encouraging.


I didn't mean so much the young blackbelt was at fault in any way but many instructors do not like children having blackbelts and that lad copped it for that.
 

_Simon_

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When I first started my MA journey, back in the mid 80's, I would say I was wiling to accept any critique. So much of the post for this thread are about semantics and delivery. Two people who deliver the same message will be received completely different. "You are doing that wrong" will be taken very differently said by different people. It is the little things we sense in direct contact conversation. Is the delivery nervous, aggressive, passive, weak, and so on. Is the person animated, stoic, engaged. These are the things we will never get from discussions on the forum because we were not there to see and FEEL them. Also the receptors are going to be different. For example, the OP is the parent of the student in question. Apparently, the student has some mild deficit so understandably the parent is protective. Overly protective, maybe. In the same vein, a new student is wide eyed and usually overloaded with information so correction is slower and usually not well received. In contrast, a mature black belt should be able to receive criticism better and be able to parse out at least some degree of unnecessary, incorrect, or even embarrassing critique.
My GM is 84 so he is way past teaching with heavily physical example. Lately, he has really been on me about teaching more verbally and by explanation. Hard to do when you tend to compare your current self to your 25-30 year old self. I do understand it is important as a BB of any rank to know how to be "deep" in your understanding and teaching of your MA.
I do hope the OP posts again and let us know how things are going.
Yep very true, well said.
Again, we have no clue if there was attitude from the young BB instructor. We were not there.
And yeah I was moreso referring to the situation I described (in which I was there), but yeah would love to hear more info from the OP.
 

_Simon_

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I didn't mean so much the young blackbelt was at fault in any way but many instructors do not like children having blackbelts and that lad copped it for that.
Ah yep fair enough, very well could have been that. I just don't see the point in that teaching style in the long term grand scheme of things.
 

Tez3

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Ah yep fair enough, very well could have been that. I just don't see the point in that teaching style in the long term grand scheme of things.


I now have a good hairdresser who does my hair just how I like it but before I found him I tried a few. The thing I noticed was however good I thought my hair had been cut the next hairdresser would pull it apart, 'who on earth cut this', 'OMG, this has been butchered' etc etc. the implication is of course that all the previous hairdressers were rubbish and only the one talking was any good. it was a depressingly common refrain, one which my current hairdresser didn't use, another reason I like him.
I'd suggest that the instructor was doing a version of this, all the other instructors are rubbish but he can turn it around for all the students cos he's the best!!
 

_Simon_

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I now have a good hairdresser who does my hair just how I like it but before I found him I tried a few. The thing I noticed was however good I thought my hair had been cut the next hairdresser would pull it apart, 'who on earth cut this', 'OMG, this has been butchered' etc etc. the implication is of course that all the previous hairdressers were rubbish and only the one talking was any good. it was a depressingly common refrain, one which my current hairdresser didn't use, another reason I like him.
I'd suggest that the instructor was doing a version of this, all the other instructors are rubbish but he can turn it around for all the students cos he's the best!!

Hehe yeah wow.. I'd imagine it's a common thing, just the arrogance and tearing down that's so unappealing... Even if he knew a ton and could make me improve dramatically technically as a karateka, I wouldn't go anywhere near him. Just at what cost, how you see yourself and what you think you deserve all come into it.
 

Mark Lynn

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Absolutely (to be honest though I wouldn't be happy if my son was only 13 and was given a black belt but that's just me.)

I wouldn't be happy either if he was given a black belt. But I wouldn't be upset if he earned his black belt.

Earning a Black Belt at age 13 should be the main concern.

Why?

Just FYI, I speak as a teacher of mostly kids in American TKD and I have some also in the my FMA program. But if the kid knows the material and can perform it to the schools standards why shouldn't they rank as a black belt?

I have no illusions that my young black belts are going to beat up a grown adult. However I have seen grown adults on black belt tests (sitting as a board member) when defending against weapons (simulated training blades) grab the blade or not be aware of the weapon and do some crazy stuff as self defense (that could get them killed). Yet if my student is able to defend themselves and not make the same mistakes why is that not good enough?

I mean where do we think that a black belt is only when a person is able to spar or beat adults. We expect adults to defeat their peers (other adults) why is it not OK for younger students to defend against their peers.

One of my students got to train in our associations Kobudo program at 11, they made an exception for her cause I thought and told the senior instructors that she was 12, the cut off age was 13. She was 1st brown (red belt for us) at the time. She was the smallest student out of 40+ men and women and teens, multi dan black belts and brown belts. She held her own and at the end of the 3 yr program, she along with the 15 others who lasted tested for 1st dan. She was rated as having the best exam of the group. Granted she didn't have to do bo vs bo sparring (although she does padded weapon spar in my classes), nor did anyone else for that matter, but she knew all of the material and performed right along with the adults and older teens.

If a school wants a certain age for black belts that's fine, but if others have different age requirements, I don't see it as a problem.
 

FriedRice

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Why?

Just FYI, I speak as a teacher of mostly kids in American TKD and I have some also in the my FMA program. But if the kid knows the material and can perform it to the schools standards why shouldn't they rank as a black belt?

I have no illusions that my young black belts are going to beat up a grown adult.

This is why.

However I have seen grown adults on black belt tests (sitting as a board member) when defending against weapons (simulated training blades) grab the blade or not be aware of the weapon and do some crazy stuff as self defense (that could get them killed). Yet if my student is able to defend themselves and not make the same mistakes why is that not good enough?

No. Neither of them should be getting BB's.

I mean where do we think that a black belt is only when a person is able to spar or beat adults. We expect adults to defeat their peers (other adults) why is it not OK for younger students to defend against their peers.

Cheapens the BB.

One of my students got to train in our associations Kobudo program at 11, they made an exception for her cause I thought and told the senior instructors that she was 12, the cut off age was 13. She was 1st brown (red belt for us) at the time. She was the smallest student out of 40+ men and women and teens, multi dan black belts and brown belts. She held her own and at the end of the 3 yr program, she along with the 15 others who lasted tested for 1st dan. She was rated as having the best exam of the group. Granted she didn't have to do bo vs bo sparring (although she does padded weapon spar in my classes), nor did anyone else for that matter, but she knew all of the material and performed right along with the adults and older teens.

If a school wants a certain age for black belts that's fine, but if others have different age requirements, I don't see it as a problem.

Then you wonder why TMA Black belts are rarely respected since 1993, when UFC 01 debuted.
 

dvcochran

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I wouldn't be happy either if he was given a black belt. But I wouldn't be upset if he earned his black belt.



Why?

Just FYI, I speak as a teacher of mostly kids in American TKD and I have some also in the my FMA program. But if the kid knows the material and can perform it to the schools standards why shouldn't they rank as a black belt?

I have no illusions that my young black belts are going to beat up a grown adult. However I have seen grown adults on black belt tests (sitting as a board member) when defending against weapons (simulated training blades) grab the blade or not be aware of the weapon and do some crazy stuff as self defense (that could get them killed). Yet if my student is able to defend themselves and not make the same mistakes why is that not good enough?

I mean where do we think that a black belt is only when a person is able to spar or beat adults. We expect adults to defeat their peers (other adults) why is it not OK for younger students to defend against their peers.

One of my students got to train in our associations Kobudo program at 11, they made an exception for her cause I thought and told the senior instructors that she was 12, the cut off age was 13. She was 1st brown (red belt for us) at the time. She was the smallest student out of 40+ men and women and teens, multi dan black belts and brown belts. She held her own and at the end of the 3 yr program, she along with the 15 others who lasted tested for 1st dan. She was rated as having the best exam of the group. Granted she didn't have to do bo vs bo sparring (although she does padded weapon spar in my classes), nor did anyone else for that matter, but she knew all of the material and performed right along with the adults and older teens.

If a school wants a certain age for black belts that's fine, but if others have different age requirements, I don't see it as a problem.

Like you, I don't have a problem with an early teen getting a BB. But it is under a very, very narrow set of circumstances and should be an exception, not the norm. Each of us who have taught for some time have had those exceptional kids who could have an adult conversation with us at age 10. (Somewhere in my post you can find me talking about Mikey Hickerson.) However, we have also had many, many, many kids who were more than able to physically perform the curriculum.
To me, being able to pass a black belt exam is much more than checking boxes to say they performed a technique adequately. Even it they memorize a bunch of language and history, there are esoteric things that should be just as apparent to the testing board as it is to the student's instructor. Being able to perform with a group of kids one year older in a special program is impressive. But why did you let the kid into the program? On their physical merit? Part of the beauty and grace of youth is the body's abilities when young. On physical merit alone most kids will out perform adults. Put them under pressure of any kind and the scales quickly flip. This is an example of a qualifier for being ready to test for BB. If we all did it on physical ability alone a black belt would be meaningless.
 

Tez3

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Then you wonder why TMA Black belts are rarely respected since 1993, when UFC 01 debuted.


Oh my, you actually believe that. I think you have misunderstood the actual reaction to that first promotion, and what people thought of it.
 

WaterGal

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If you have such a problem with junior black belts that you're going to berate the kids who received them in front of their peers at a seminar.... then don't agree to teach a seminar at a school that awards junior black belts. Problem solved! (Why a person would take out their annoyance on the poor student instead of the person who awarded the belt and set the standard, though, is beyond me. That's just bullying at that point.)
 

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