Atacx gym capoeira: You can fight with it
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OP
OP
ATACX GYM
2nd Black Belt
Well if "1/4 speed compliant partner crap" is so combatively ineffective, then how can you justify, sir, that you have any skill at all when you showed techs of LESS THAN 1/4 SPEED and LOWER TECHNICAL DEMAND with this video of yours as part of your 3rd dan test?
Sir, the Brazilian slavers didn't get bored and decide to fabricate 5 centuries of capoeiristas defying them against all odds. Sir, legendary pugilists like Ganga Za Besouro Gigante Zumbi Dos Palmares Mestres Bimba and Pastinha Anderson Silva etc etc weren't crafted out of thin air and are the most empirical refutation to your contentions regarding the inapplicability of capoeira to real world combat. Sir, there is literally no other system in the history of the Americas which is so thoroughly authenticated visavis the oppressed thwarting the oppressors, the enslaved becoming free of their own will and held by their own combat might and razor keen guile than capoeira and its cousins spreading from South America to Haiti...and those successes are recorded by the enslavers; the people and group most invested with hatred for and toward the group to whom they ascribe these scintillating successes.There is only so much that can be conveyed via video and text. I put these videos out for individuals who are more open-minded than you are, sir. You have stated your opposition to capoeira. Fine and noted. You have stated your rather low opinion of me. Fine and noted. My responses then as now remain the same: I don't mind whatever your opinions are about me. I am [ as I stated here on MT and also on KenpoTalk] fully ready to demonstrate my techniques to you in person via energetic sparring against you and/or by less combative direct comparison and contrasting of technique. A single glance at your video as compared to mine shows no doubt that my technical and athletic skills vastly surpass yours, but you're free to indulge in whatever opinion or flight of fancy you wish. I mean this with all due sincerity and cordialness, man. I'm really not mad at you or offended by you. I will meet you at any seminar and any venue in California or hell the Western United States that you wish to name and we can settle our technical differences via direct face to face conversation or comparison and contrast of technique or whatever method that you wish to directly engage in. The choice to step up and substantiate your position or snipe with kolossal keyboard kantankerousness or whatever other means you choose is up to you. Good luck and have fun with that, sir. I mean that sincerely. No anger, ridicule, or belittling by me or from me to you.Everybody else who observes these videos? I hope you chime in with your opinions and can see the applicability which apparently eludes the infamous Twin Fist. If not? That's fine...I do. And I hope you enjoy the videos
.QUOTE=Twin Fist;1455320]well, maybe you can use it in a fight.as long as you are fighting your cousin or one of your students in the course of making a video about how awesome you are.otherwise? do a handstand in a parking lot, see how well it turns out.[/QUOTE]
As for handstands in a parking lot? I'll do you several steps better. How about cartwheel kicks against martial artists in direct competition? Martial artists who are in better shape and blessed with better combat technique than you are, sir?H
How about a cartwheel kick KO in MMA?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3HJoT9j7wo&feature=watch_response
ANDERSON THE SPIDER SILVA UFC MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMP OF THE WORLD AND GREATEST P4P MMA FIGHTER EVER does capoeira and uses it in MMA
here's some more cartwheel kicks vs opposition better than anyone you'll ever face:
rolling koppou from capoeira
world muay thai champ and legend Saenchai showing the cartwheel kick in training and with KO's in his bouts:
It's so effective and simple, even kids can do it:
AMANI..."peace"...RAS HEAD COACH OF THE ATACX GYM.
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Cyriacus
Senior Master
Id argue differently.
Whether or not it is the best option though, is another question again. Capoeira has one thing on its side, and thats "Wait, where the **** did that kick come from?".
That being said;
In Order:
1;
Itd probably be better if he threw a punch or something first, or just generally moved in some direction. Also, i cant help but think that groin punching lowers you down, and risks inefficiency, in that punching a guys penis is a bit different to compressing his testicles. And thats me trying to be diplomatic with the Sites swearing policy
2;
Kinda makes sense as an entry, for confusion value. And the follow on is what I mean about kicks out of nowere. Albeit it does come at the risk of being leggrabbed.
3;
At 1:01, Id have just done a Wrist and Leg Takedown.
4;
Did you really have to cartwheel away?
*ahem*
If you were behind him and able to strike him, why not just put a couple more into the kidneys and call him out?
5;
Well, thatll at least hit the testicles.
Id have preferred an Ankle Takedown though.
6;
Cant say i like it. Cant complain though.
In conclusion, yeah, Capeoira can be used to fight. But it can take a bit longer than id like getting to the point, and isnt the best choice. It cant hurt to have its kicks out of nowere though. But it can hurt to punch someone in the ****, and get hooked in the temple. To each their own however - Im not required to approve of everything you come up with, and thisll have to be one such exception, Good Sir.
Capeoira is good, but Id be focusing on setting up its Kicks.
Try a Step Forward Jab to the Head (feint), with both feet in line and facing to the side, then go straight into a drop-kick, or cartwheel kick.
OP
OP
ATACX GYM
2nd Black Belt
Id argue differently.
Whether or not it is the best option though, is another question again. Capoeira has one thing on its side, and thats "Wait, where the **** did that kick come from?".
That being said;
In Order:
1;
Itd probably be better if he threw a punch or something first, or just generally moved in some direction. Also, i cant help but think that groin punching lowers you down, and risks inefficiency, in that punching a guys penis is a bit different to compressing his testicles. And thats me trying to be diplomatic with the Sites swearing policy
2;
Kinda makes sense as an entry, for confusion value. And the follow on is what I mean about kicks out of nowere. Albeit it does come at the risk of being leggrabbed.
3;
At 1:01, Id have just done a Wrist and Leg Takedown.
4;
Did you really have to cartwheel away?
*ahem*
If you were behind him and able to strike him, why not just put a couple more into the kidneys and call him out?
5;
Well, thatll at least hit the testicles.
Id have preferred an Ankle Takedown though.
6;
Cant say i like it. Cant complain though.
In conclusion, yeah, Capeoira can be used to fight. But it can take a bit longer than id like getting to the point, and isnt the best choice. It cant hurt to have its kicks out of nowere though. But it can hurt to punch someone in the ****, and get hooked in the temple. To each their own however - Im not required to approve of everything you come up with, and thisll have to be one such exception, Good Sir.
Capeoira is good, but Id be focusing on setting up its Kicks.
Try a Step Forward Jab to the Head (feint), with both feet in line and facing to the side, then go straight into a drop-kick, or cartwheel kick.
this is a better more literate criticism. My response in order:
Video 1: I threw the chassis kick and roundhouse kick along with a palm strike feint first...it's very effective as the opponent has to defend against both kicks and determine if the palm strike is a feint or a strike. While they're engaged with that? It's actually quite simple to enter with a groin strike behind a guard. It flows very well and easily once you get the feel of it down and it's hard for your opponent to respond cogently because he's not used to those kinds of combos being thrown with aplomb at him. Everything else flows from there.
Video 2: The "leg grab" is there only because I extend the meia lua so the camera can see it. The kick is actually a lightning bolt of a heel kick that is very hard to defend against. None of my sparring partners and video partners like this kick being thrown with any kind of speed at them because the destructive power is extreme and so is the speed. The "wth izZAT" factor that you referred to earlier is also a major part of every tech from video 1 to the last video. I also shoot the takedown from here and in every single one of my other vids. Very hard to defend for the reasons previously mentioned.
Video 3: The Wrist and Leg Takedown is also part of capoeira but when I did that before too many people were unaware of that fact and claimed that it wasn't capoeira. I still do it...but I also showed more demonstrably obvious capoeira techs which are likewise very effective from this position
Video 4: The cartwheel escape is highly effective and very unorthodox (surprising) especially against multiple opponents. It simply is difficult to recuperate and properly respond to someone who can bust that move combatively out of nowhere. You have to experience that directly to really appreciate it. It's virtually 100% guaranteed to freeze a guy because he's going WTF??!!! and that quarter of a second or less is all you need to put half of a room between you two or you and him and his group of homies [as I did when I did this tech] or cross the distance and nail him with it.
Video 5: The Ankle Pick/Takedown is also a part of capoeira but even when I show people videos of this they complain and decry its reality. I've already shown video of me doing this and others doing it long before me, so I decided to show a little something else. Never deny the utility of the Ankle Pick in this scenario but never limit yourself to this option either.
Video 6: Most people don't love the carthweel kick. Can't be mad at you there. And then I nail them with it. They may still dislike it...but they become converts to its efficacy. The cartwheel kick isn't for everyone but that's not the same as saying that it's ineffective. I know you weren't saying that it's ineffective or inadvisable, but I am saying that people who lack the skill set to pull it off tend to say that the tech is ineffective and/or inadvisable because they conflate their limits with the techs ability. They're not the same.
Cyriacus
Senior Master
this is a better more literate criticism. My response in order:
Video 1: I threw the chassis kick and roundhouse kick along with a palm strike feint first...it's very effective as the opponent has to defend against both kicks and determine if the palm strike is a feint or a strike. While they're engaged with that? It's actually quite simple to enter with a groin strike behind a guard. It flows very well and easily once you get the feel of it down and it's hard for your opponent to respond cogently because he's not used to those kinds of combos being thrown with aplomb at him. Everything else flows from there.
And that makes sense - I still wouldnt call it preferable, but it does add some context, and applicability.
Video 2: The "leg grab" is there only because I extend the meia lua so the camera can see it. The kick is actually a lightning bolt of a heel kick that is very hard to defend against. None of my sparring partners and video partners like this kick being thrown with any kind of speed at them because the destructive power is extreme and so is the speed. The "wth izZAT" factor that you referred to earlier is also a major part of every tech from video 1 to the last video. I also shoot the takedown from here and in every single one of my other vids. Very hard to defend for the reasons previously mentioned.
Extending that for the camera explains some things. As per the takedown, doing a takedown makes sense, albeit Im more suggesting a different choice.
Video 3: The Wrist and Leg Takedown is also part of capoeira but when I did that before too many people were unaware of that fact and claimed that it wasn't capoeira. I still do it...but I also showed more demonstrably obvious capoeira techs which are likewise very effective from this position
I believe its Capoeira. Youd stand to gain nothing from lieing about that.
Video 4: The cartwheel escape is highly effective and very unorthodox (surprising) especially against multiple opponents. It simply is difficult to recuperate and properly respond to someone who can bust that move combatively out of nowhere. You have to experience that directly to really appreciate it. It's virtually 100% guaranteed to freeze a guy because he's going WTF??!!! and that quarter of a second or less is all you need to put half of a room between you two or you and him and his group of homies [as I did when I did this tech] or cross the distance and nail him with it.
Which would be right. Id probably just gawk at you for a second the first time, but rather out of amusement. That isnt a criticism, mind you. Im just easily entertained by some things. And cartwheeling fighters is an interesting one
Video 5: The Ankle Pick/Takedown is also a part of capoeira but even when I show people videos of this they complain and decry its reality. I've already shown video of me doing this and others doing it long before me, so I decided to show a little something else. Never deny the utility of the Ankle Pick in this scenario but never limit yourself to this option either.
Aye - But was it the best option at the time? It was the Capeoira option at the time - Tis the point.
Video 6: Most people don't love the carthweel kick. Can't be mad at you there. And then I nail them with it. They may still dislike it...but they become converts to its efficacy. The cartwheel kick isn't for everyone but that's not the same as saying that it's ineffective. I know you weren't saying that it's ineffective or inadvisable, but I am saying that people who lack the skill set to pull it off tend to say that the tech is ineffective and/or inadvisable because they conflate their limits with the techs ability. They're not the same.
Oh its efficient - Ive not directly sparred someone who does Capeoira, but I do know that if someone suddenly does some crazy difficult strike out of nowere, it can be very hard to defend against it, even if its telegraphed.
*nods
Mostly good. I have a couple of critiques though. Vid 3 stands out. Even if you are very quick on your positive, you can be stopped EASILY by a knee or low kick. It would not be hard, and by holding on to his wrist, you give him a point of stability to work from to do so. And since you are going immediately to the positiva, if he does it right, that knee is toast.
You realitze they were INSTRUCTIONAL videos, right?, there is no reason from the videos to assume automatically tatat they practice e quarter speed.
OP
OP
ATACX GYM
2nd Black Belt
Keen eye, Josh! I see that I'm going to have to up the level of my video-fu and camera-do and use two cams more often, because at the proper angle we can see that I already addressed these concerns. Unfortunately, I may not have filmed this clip at the proper angle. When I grab his wrist? He's being jerked backwards and at an angle, taking his balance. He can't knee me because he has to regain his balance. To further complicate matters and amp his "joy quotient", I slam the nads with a ridgehand...which has all kinds of salutory effects, including robbing you of balance/dropping you/freezing you in place due to pain,and almost always shoots your hips backward so you do the "butt back cuz my nuts been smacked" dance. This further kills the possibility of a knee strike and/or a low kick. Lastly remember all of this is done in conjunction with a kick and trip, which amplifies all the foregoing and adds the extra ingredient of body momentum which makes it even less likely and faaar more difficult to get off a knee of kick.
A quick countergrab won't save you either, but executing what amounts to a modified hardcore Kenpo tech referred to as DEFLECTING HAMMER on my 1 on 1 might work though...I've done it before but I still got dropped by the tripping leg even when I defended the groin shot. The followthrough is also a double leg blast that "turns the corner" as wrestlers call it, and this too is wholly a part of capoeira and has been documented by Portuguese slavers as being a favorite tactic of Angoleiros.
Thanks for the response. Yeah, maybe a different camera angle might help, because I'm trying to figure how you would jerk him backwards from in front of him. I am sure it's possible, but it seems really unlikely.
I should have been specific on the timing. The knee, kick, or leg check counter while countering the punch. Granted, if you catch me with the punch, or even distract me long enough to hit the groin, there's a VERY high probability that you'll get to the headlock. But, the point of the technique (if I understand right) was if the guy knew how to check a punch. Well let's take it further and say he knows how to check the leg at the same time he checks the punch (not exactly an uncommon tactic in the martial arts.) That's where the ability to pull off the groin shot becomes really doubtful, as well as the subsequent positiva.
I should have been specific on the timing. The knee, kick, or leg check counter while countering the punch. Granted, if you catch me with the punch, or even distract me long enough to hit the groin, there's a VERY high probability that you'll get to the headlock. But, the point of the technique (if I understand right) was if the guy knew how to check a punch. Well let's take it further and say he knows how to check the leg at the same time he checks the punch (not exactly an uncommon tactic in the martial arts.) That's where the ability to pull off the groin shot becomes really doubtful, as well as the subsequent positiva.
Cyriacus
Senior Master
Might I suggest moving the Camera for each stage of the Clip? You stop and start pretty often, so moving the Camera each time shouldnt be too much trouble. That way, people will not only see the next part of what youre showing, but also the previous parts from a different perspective.
I was pissed at Twin Fist, and then I googled "Atacx gym Long Beach" an came up blank for an actual location. Now I am intrigued because I can't find a location.
Hey, ras, what's the address of your gym? I can't find it, bro.
Hey, ras, what's the address of your gym? I can't find it, bro.
OP
OP
ATACX GYM
2nd Black Belt
I don't own the gym that I sublease out of. I am currently finding a Gym of my own and will finish negotiations for it around March.However, whether a instructor has a dojo or not is NOT the proof of his/her/their skill. The proof of their skill lies in their DOING AND LIVING THEIR ART WITH HONOR INTEGRITY AND HIGH LEVELS OF SKILL. I show my skill via video and via direct expression. There are people onsite right now who can directly vouch for the fact that I can walk in from off the street and teach their brand spanking new White belts how to break bear hugs...with their Kempo salute. Literally the Kempo salute. Not kidding. I know plenty of people with suspect Kenpo and martial arts skills who are excellent businesspeople and own chains of schools...and I know plenty of martial arts ronin who own no schools but who are magnificent exponents of all that is good in martial arts.
In my neighborhoods, many of the people who need martial instruction the most CAN NOT afford to pay monthly tuition at schools. I oftentimes train them in their own apartments or parks or the like. That, to me, is further indication of my dedication to my art...and not conflating one's startup capital and marketing wizardry with one's legit martial skill. Twin Fist asks me what school I teach from. What he SHOULD be doing is showing us his sparring video, his demonstration of self defense techniques, his range breadth and depth of diverse abilities. My videos do all of that...from exercises to multiple martial arts. And martial arts luminaries who see me get down cosign my skill. That, to me, is more than enough.
If I had to choose between being a massive commercial success yet catastrophic martial arts failure both technically and as a human being, and being an outstanding martial artist human being father brother son believer in the Creator and friend? Without a doubt, gentle readers, I would choose the latter.
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OP
OP
ATACX GYM
2nd Black Belt
My full name is RAS FLETCHER. I already told you this, John. Where are your techs demonstrating anything above 1/4 speed? What is your full name? Where do you teach? Who can vouch for you?
Johh Hackleman...Chuck Liddell's coach...among other senior Kenpoists can vouch that my skillz are legit:
Good stuff.... old school kenpo/kempo/kajukenbo.  You rock....
johnhacklemanrn 9 months ago
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http://www.myspace.com/dethstryque/...669#mssrc=SitesPhotos_SP_AlbumCover_ViewAlbum
On this very site, several individuals including Sandanchris can directly vouch for my combat ability and my legitimate technical skill. I have travelled in many of the same circles that Doc Ron Chapel has been in, and we know many of the same people ranging from Sijo Muhammad to my uncle Bobby Thomas aka Spider-Man and Chicken Gabrielle. I'm old skool legit and my bangin credentials are impeccable. You, sir, are without such accolades. I can list many more--which I already did on KenpoTalk--but the bottom line with you sir is this:
We have already had this go-round on KenpoTalk.com. You are simply seeking to provoke me and slander my good name merely because that's the kind of guy you seem to be...and when faced with direct challenges as to your legitimacy? You back down and can never furnish legit evidence. Where are your sparring videos? Where are your instructionals? Where is anything that shows that you actually demonstrate skill in martial arts--which is what we're all here and interested in--and do something other than make inflammatory statements and try to goad people with your sillyness? You are not IAGO ,sir, and I am more than a modern day OTHELLO sans the naivete and with a full grown man's inner equilibrium...and Long Beach rock em sock em ghetto child firepower. You are clearly nowhere near prepared for what I can do and routinely bring, and that is fine. Do your own thing, sir, and continue to live your own life without interfering in mine.
I have never in my life met a grown man who's passionate about what he does to the extent that he makes it a signal part of his life's endeavors who avoids the opportunities to demonstrate his skill knowledge etc as you have and still do. You have yet to respond to any of the challenges I laid at your doorstep, sir. Had you made such a challenge to me? I would have accepted it...especially if I go out of my way to go and pollute your threads as you do to mine. You are likely still smarting from the threat of the ban stick that you received at KT and still stinging from the whoopin I laid down on you here:
http://www.kenpotalk.com/forum/show...-a-larry-tatum-black-belt&p=154518#post154518
Sir, all that needs to be said of you and I and your immature abrasive childish attempts to goad me...you said yourself. When you noted that you are a gigantic "***" and "always will be" on KenpoTalk.com.
http://www.kenpotalk.com/forum/show...word-pt-1-atacx-gym-style&p=154810#post154810
I gave Bob and jdinca my word that I would not allow you to draw me into your buffoonery, sir, and I will keep my word. Should you post in my threads again with your unneeded and unsolicited offensiveness, I will immediately petition the administrators to censure you appropriately. Either contribute positively to the discussion or don't enter it...exactly as I don't enter your threads for specifically that reason. We radically disagree in martial arts and politics. Fine and noted. I have sparring video of me which I have posted in the links above, I have noted martial arts legends and masters vouching for me, and you don't and never will. Fine and noted. You somehow have developed an obsessive personal dislike of me based purely upon the posts I make on a virtual website and apparently you are a grown man older than me catchin feelings in my thread. Fine and noted. If I'm wrong about you? EVEN BETTER. I genuinely hope you're not the gigantic "***" that you yourself stated that you are, apparently you're proud of it and claim you always will be an "***".[Your words, not mine. Look at the link to YOUR own posts.] Look I don't know you personally John and probably never will be and I suspect neither of our lives will be adversely impacted by the lack of the other in our real life circles. So let it go, man. Do some yoga. Think Valium. Try some Buddhist chants. Go to a Rertreat somewhere. Meditate in Yellowstone Park. Do something productive...and do it AWAY from my threads. Forever.
AMANI..."peace"...
HEAD COACH RAS OF THE ATACX GYM
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OP
OP
ATACX GYM
2nd Black Belt
Let me quote myself from KenpoTalk.com responding to yet another one of Twin Fist's inflammatory posts regarding me and end this matter...
"...Sandan Chris and Clarke are each about 100 pounds heavier than me.They've seen and felt what I can do.They can tell you without a doubt that from a stand still,while talking,and without any significant effort or big wind up...I can knock someone their size not only off their feet but send them FLYING.Who can vouch for YOU?
Do you have ANY SPARRING VIDEO? ANY TECHNIQUE VIDEOS WHEREIN RESISTANCE IS SHOWN BY YOUR PARTNER? NO? YOU DON'T? YET YOU ACCUSE ME OF BEING A POSER? It's obvious,sir,that YOU'RE the charlatan here...in fact? Your antics and dooficity are actually embarassments to any self-respecting charlatan anywhere and everywhere.
"...and how whites are the devil.....thats all he EVER puts out"--TWIN FIST
Now I'm calling you out on that.Show me one post where I EVER dissed ANYONE racially.JUST ONE WILL DO.If you can't? Then I enjoin the moderators here to censure you for the blatant analrifficness of that comment of yours.Saying/implying that I'm a racist would be offensive if it wasn't so laughable and further empirical proof of not only your insecurity but your patheticness.You're a 4th Dan in American TKD but you can't kick a lick? LOLOL.I have videos of me outperforming any kick you've ever done in life RIGHT NOW.Show me ONE high kick you've ever done.JUST ONE HIGH KICK COMBO.Here's me doing one.Hell,here's me doing a COUPLE.
Now post one of you DOING QUALITY MARTIAL TECHNIQUES VS RESISTANCE and NOT KICKING KEYBOARD KRAP,Twin Fist...cuz so far,that's all you specialize in doing.I not only say what I have to say,I prove I can will have been and keep doing what I say I can..."
So please people. Let's not buy into Twin Fist's rabble rousing, ignore him, censure him where needed, and continue to positively associate with one another sans his presence. K? K!
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If I can take a moment to interject between in the personal sparring, I just wanted to say I enjoyed the videos. Thanks for posting them. I always have high regard for those who are willing to put their technique up for display in front of their piers.
As for the content, in watching the OP's movement, I believe he's quite capable. For now I'll just leave it at that. As for the technique, I feel they're a little more complicated than your average person can or would do in a self defense situation. Pretty hard sell for a 2 minute video. As instructors, we don't teach martial artists, we create them. They must be able to learn what we're teaching. To that end, my own techniques and those that I teach are more basic with less movement. I feel it gives my students a better chance of success. That's in no way to say yours can't be effective, but it does limit your audience simply because your average "joe" doesn't display your level of dexterity. Good stuff though! Again, thank you! When you get a place, maybe I'll come spend an afternoon and show you how an old man does it. If I break a hip doing a cart wheel, it's on you though. :uhyeah:
As for the content, in watching the OP's movement, I believe he's quite capable. For now I'll just leave it at that. As for the technique, I feel they're a little more complicated than your average person can or would do in a self defense situation. Pretty hard sell for a 2 minute video. As instructors, we don't teach martial artists, we create them. They must be able to learn what we're teaching. To that end, my own techniques and those that I teach are more basic with less movement. I feel it gives my students a better chance of success. That's in no way to say yours can't be effective, but it does limit your audience simply because your average "joe" doesn't display your level of dexterity. Good stuff though! Again, thank you! When you get a place, maybe I'll come spend an afternoon and show you how an old man does it. If I break a hip doing a cart wheel, it's on you though. :uhyeah:
