At what point do you tap in a blood choke?

Monkey Turned Wolf

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to me it sounds like you are experiencing emotional abuse
if it works for you...whatever...it doesnt have to make sense to me...
Having one guy in a gym give you advice he thinks is good, is very far from emotional abuse. Claims like that is what makes people doubt actual emotional abuse cases when they happen.
 
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Having one guy in a gym give you advice he thinks is good, is very far from emotional abuse. Claims like that is what makes people doubt actual emotional abuse cases when they happen.
This is a primary example of the difference between talking in-person and talking online.

In-person (as with this purple belt), we can talk through our disagreements and come to some sort of consenus.

Online, I get gaslit by someone who tells me my understanding of my own experience is wrong, and I just put the troll on ignore.
 

OffendedOnyx

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to me it sounds like you are experiencing emotional abuse
if it works for you...whatever...it doesnt have to make sen

Having one guy in a gym give you advice he thinks is good, is very far from emotional abuse. Claims like that is what makes people doubt actual emotional abuse cases when they happen.
You dont understand...

Its responsibility and ownership.
If someone hands you money for skill you owe them.
They are your apprentice.
A gym isnt some kind of **** show free for all.
Safety...like on a jobsite is part of that.

If this Purple Belt artist is just running around and customizing everyone with this and that someeone could get hurt and no one will know why it happens. Like to tap someone with a submission they dont have a counterpunch to is meaningless.
There is no curriculum.
Imagine being in Grade 6 and being exposed to Grade 12 math class because some grade 12 who wanted to feel like a doctor came in and showed you...and you started forming everything off of those concepts...you have a core to drill in.

Its actually a huge issue if you view it from an insurance perspective which the Master/Coach/Professor/Gym owner, whatever you want to call it...its all just creative writing to me...person in charge.
 

OffendedOnyx

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This is a primary example of the difference between talking in-person and talking online.

In-person (as with this purple belt), we can talk through our disagreements and come to some sort of consenus.

Online, I get gaslit by someone who tells me my understanding of my own experience is wrong, and I just put the troll on ignore.
Depends on what perspective you choose to have first...if its not the law or safety ...I have nothing for you
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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You dont understand...

Its responsibility and ownership.
If someone hands you money for skill you owe them.
They are your apprentice.
A gym isnt some kind of **** show free for all.
Safety...like on a jobsite is part of that.

If this Purple Belt artist is just running around and customizing everyone with this and that someeone could get hurt and no one will know why it happens. Like to tap someone with a submission they dont have a counterpunch to is meaningless.
There is no curriculum.
Imagine being in Grade 6 and being exposed to Grade 12 math class because some grade 12 who wanted to feel like a doctor came in and showed you...and you started forming everything off of those concepts...you have a core to drill in.

Its actually a huge issue if you view it from an insurance perspective which the Master/Coach/Professor/Gym owner, whatever you want to call it...its all just creative writing to me...person in charge.
Depends on what perspective you choose to have first...if its not the law or safety ...I have nothing for you
So assuming I agree with you and accept your hierarchy/view of teaching is the only correct one...there is still no emotional abuse going on. And has nothing to do with insurance, or the law.
 

OffendedOnyx

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So assuming I agree with you and accept your hierarchy/view of teaching is the only correct one...there is still no emotional abuse going on. And has nothing to do with insurance, or the law.
Are you training on private property?
Pretty sure the law exists everywhere, although it can temporarily disappear legally if your rights are violated.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Are you training on private property?
Pretty sure the law exists everywhere, although it can temporarily disappear legally if your rights are violated.
So what law says a purple belt can't give advice? Unless you are suggesting that the law is regarding the emotional abuse aspect, which you've given no reason to believe is going on (and the OP has denied)...
 

OffendedOnyx

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It sounds like an interesting case for a court and a judge.

Next time just lay there and let the person kill you and get your family to sue.

You can be a BJJ martyr
 

Gerry Seymour

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You dont understand...

Its responsibility and ownership.
If someone hands you money for skill you owe them.
They are your apprentice.
A gym isnt some kind of **** show free for all.
Safety...like on a jobsite is part of that.

If this Purple Belt artist is just running around and customizing everyone with this and that someeone could get hurt and no one will know why it happens. Like to tap someone with a submission they dont have a counterpunch to is meaningless.
There is no curriculum.
Imagine being in Grade 6 and being exposed to Grade 12 math class because some grade 12 who wanted to feel like a doctor came in and showed you...and you started forming everything off of those concepts...you have a core to drill in.

Its actually a huge issue if you view it from an insurance perspective which the Master/Coach/Professor/Gym owner, whatever you want to call it...its all just creative writing to me...person in charge.
In an art that is actively developing (as opposed to being stagnant), most of what you say here makes little sense.
 

OffendedOnyx

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I think ppl go with ppl who have their words

If that style of BJJ works for you thats fine.

I am entitled to my opinion and thats my opinion.

I like a set curriculum but wouldnt waste a second of my life on a gym where I have no relationships.
 

drop bear

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Skribs you have had some time in now.

Would you tap to that same choke now?
 
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I've come to realize that this guy is a nice guy, he's good at BJJ, and when he gives me advice on how to do something, it's usually pretty good. Especially because he and I have a similar height and body type.

However, he's not real good at giving criticism, and I filter a lot of it. For example, he'll criticize me for "telegraphing", and while it is true, it's the least of my problems. I need to be able to do the technique well enough in drills to not telegraph in sparring. I'm not there yet, and criticizing me for failing step 2 when I'm not done with step 1 doesn't make much sense to me.

Today, I tried an umpa/bridge escape, which had been shown to me by one of the black belts. The purple belt caught my arm and got me in an armbar. He was getting on my case about "panicking" and showed me the proper way to do an elbow escape to try and get a knee in.

I'm not saying I did the bridge escape correctly. I may have screwed it up, or done it at the wrong time, or too slow, or from the wrong specific situation, (or maybe I telegraphed it). I failed at it, so obviously I have plenty to learn. But he was getting on me about "panicking", when I what I did was a very deliberate move, even if it wasn't correct. And then he showed me a totally different move than the one I was trying to do.

It makes it frustrating, because I want to listen to his advice, but I feel I need to filter what he says to find out if it's helpful.
 

drop bear

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I've come to realize that this guy is a nice guy, he's good at BJJ, and when he gives me advice on how to do something, it's usually pretty good. Especially because he and I have a similar height and body type.

However, he's not real good at giving criticism, and I filter a lot of it. For example, he'll criticize me for "telegraphing", and while it is true, it's the least of my problems. I need to be able to do the technique well enough in drills to not telegraph in sparring. I'm not there yet, and criticizing me for failing step 2 when I'm not done with step 1 doesn't make much sense to me.

Today, I tried an umpa/bridge escape, which had been shown to me by one of the black belts. The purple belt caught my arm and got me in an armbar. He was getting on my case about "panicking" and showed me the proper way to do an elbow escape to try and get a knee in.

I'm not saying I did the bridge escape correctly. I may have screwed it up, or done it at the wrong time, or too slow, or from the wrong specific situation, (or maybe I telegraphed it). I failed at it, so obviously I have plenty to learn. But he was getting on me about "panicking", when I what I did was a very deliberate move, even if it wasn't correct. And then he showed me a totally different move than the one I was trying to do.

It makes it frustrating, because I want to listen to his advice, but I feel I need to filter what he says to find out if it's helpful.

I do use the upa to create space to re guard. So that might have been what he was going for.

If you were chaining upas together that would look like panicking.
From 3:30 ramsey dewey breaks down the upa.

I like this video because it is in response to how someone would intuitively do this sweep. And therefore do it badly.
 
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dunc

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I've come to realize that this guy is a nice guy, he's good at BJJ, and when he gives me advice on how to do something, it's usually pretty good. Especially because he and I have a similar height and body type.

However, he's not real good at giving criticism, and I filter a lot of it. For example, he'll criticize me for "telegraphing", and while it is true, it's the least of my problems. I need to be able to do the technique well enough in drills to not telegraph in sparring. I'm not there yet, and criticizing me for failing step 2 when I'm not done with step 1 doesn't make much sense to me.

Today, I tried an umpa/bridge escape, which had been shown to me by one of the black belts. The purple belt caught my arm and got me in an armbar. He was getting on my case about "panicking" and showed me the proper way to do an elbow escape to try and get a knee in.

I'm not saying I did the bridge escape correctly. I may have screwed it up, or done it at the wrong time, or too slow, or from the wrong specific situation, (or maybe I telegraphed it). I failed at it, so obviously I have plenty to learn. But he was getting on me about "panicking", when I what I did was a very deliberate move, even if it wasn't correct. And then he showed me a totally different move than the one I was trying to do.

It makes it frustrating, because I want to listen to his advice, but I feel I need to filter what he says to find out if it's helpful.
Im not sure if this is the case for you or not, but there are a fair amount of techniques taught that work really well against inexperienced folk, but are terrible (even counter productive) once you get to a certain level
I dont think its a great idea to teach these, other than to show the counters perhaps, but people do do it

Of course there are many techniques that need refining to continue to work as you progress and try to apply them against ever more experienced opponents

There are a couple of ways to do the upa escape that fall into the first category. Mostly because your arm is straight with the wrist accessible
 
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I do use the upa to create space to re guard. So that might have been what he was going for.
He was referring to an elbow escape. He wanted me to frame on his hips, push him down to create space, and then get a knee in. I was trying to bridge, push him up, and roll over.
If you were chaining upas together that would look like panicking.
It's possible I was. I can't remember specifically.

I know I've been told to bridge multiple times to try and off-balance folks, so that's what I was going for.

Again, my complaint is not that the technique didn't work. It's that he decided to chew me out for panicking and then give me advice on a completely different move.
Im not sure if this is the case for you or not, but there are a fair amount of techniques taught that work really well against inexperienced folk, but are terrible (even counter productive) once you get to a certain level
I dont think its a great idea to teach these, other than to show the counters perhaps, but people do do it
The black belt who taught me this, I'm pretty sure only would have taught me stuff he uses. I don't think he's constitutionally capable of teaching me stuff he doesn't use.

He might have taught me a black belt version of the technique (being a black belt and all), but I learned the white belt version (being a white belt). I've learned it based on the context of my knowledge and experience, which means I'm not able to learn it as well as he is to teach it.
 

dunc

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The black belt who taught me this, I'm pretty sure only would have taught me stuff he uses. I don't think he's constitutionally capable of teaching me stuff he doesn't use.

He might have taught me a black belt version of the technique (being a black belt and all), but I learned the white belt version (being a white belt). I've learned it based on the context of my knowledge and experience, which means I'm not able to learn it as well as he is to teach it.
Hi
Thats great
So then it must be that you have an flaw in the way youre doing the upa escape
If your opponent can catch your arm and arm bar you then probably you are either a) pushing him (or gripping in gi) too high up his body, &/or b) over committing to the movement (which happens when one panics for example) and extending your arm too much, &/or c) bridging in the direction where his arm is already under your top arm
Generally speaking at higher levels the classic upa escape is used to disrupt, re-establish a defensive posture and/or as an entry into other escapes
When my teacher teaches the upa escape he only typically does it when he has both the opponents arms under control which nullifies the armbar risk
I think its fine to do the basic upa as long as your top elbow is really tucked in and you have his arm well controlled with his free arm no where near your own arm
Hope this makes sense?
FWIW I think the elbow/knee escape is a better Plan A when in the mount
 

drop bear

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He was referring to an elbow escape. He wanted me to frame on his hips, push him down to create space, and then get a knee in. I was trying to bridge, push him up, and roll over.

It's possible I was. I can't remember specifically.

I know I've been told to bridge multiple times to try and off-balance folks, so that's what I was going for.

Again, my complaint is not that the technique didn't work. It's that he decided to chew me out for panicking and then give me advice on a completely different move.

The black belt who taught me this, I'm pretty sure only would have taught me stuff he uses. I don't think he's constitutionally capable of teaching me stuff he doesn't use.

He might have taught me a black belt version of the technique (being a black belt and all), but I learned the white belt version (being a white belt). I've learned it based on the context of my knowledge and experience, which means I'm not able to learn it as well as he is to teach it.
The bridge and roll helps you re guard. Re guarding helps you bridge and roll.

So you are technically being taught the same concept.

Sorry. The escape to half guard. Same thing though.

Bridging multiple times will just tucker you out while probably putting you back where you started.
 
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OP
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Hi
Thats great
So then it must be that you have an flaw in the way youre doing the upa escape
If your opponent can catch your arm and arm bar you then probably you are either a) pushing him (or gripping in gi) too high up his body, &/or b) over committing to the movement (which happens when one panics for example) and extending your arm too much, &/or c) bridging in the direction where his arm is already under your top arm
Generally speaking at higher levels the classic upa escape is used to disrupt, re-establish a defensive posture and/or as an entry into other escapes
When my teacher teaches the upa escape he only typically does it when he has both the opponents arms under control which nullifies the armbar risk
I think its fine to do the basic upa as long as your top elbow is really tucked in and you have his arm well controlled with his free arm no where near your own arm
Hope this makes sense?
FWIW I think the elbow/knee escape is a better Plan A when in the mount
I'm a white belt. Of course I don't have perfect technique.

That doesn't mean I'm panicking. I am making a conscious effort in every technique I do. To the point where most of my coaching has been to stop overthinking.

I did the technique wrong. But I did so remembering advice I'd been given and trying my hardest to follow it.
The bridge and roll helps you re guard. Re guarding helps you bridge and roll.

So you are technically being taught the same concept.

Sorry. The escape to half guard. Same thing though.

Bridging multiple times will just tucker you out while probably putting you back where you started.
The upa I was taught was to get them off of me. Against white and blue belts it has been good at getting me into top position, albeit in guard.

Not to say that it only works on those belts, but that my ability to execute only on those belts.
 

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