Are Standing Arm Break Unsportsmanlike in MMA?

[Headhunter]

I think the appearance of an arm breaking is more violent than a KO or a full contact liver shot. You see the damage being inflicted to the limb opposed to the subcutaneous damage of power shots to the vulnerable areas.


That's what all pro fighters do. Power shots are meant to hurt and inflict damage.


Explaining the dynamics of the submission has nothing to do with what I think your MMA comprehension is. It's simply explaining the dynamics to convey my point. There's nothing in the video showing his opponent knew it was coming nor defended it in anyway.

My god you really are ignorant about fighting competition aren't you....they're trying to win that is it...yes injuries happen but no one is seeking to injure them they're not going in the ring hoping to break an arm...it's the same as football no player is trying to break another players leg with a tackle but it does happen and accepted as part of the risk. Same as fighting these guys are trying to win that is it...I've stepped in the ring numerous times and never once wanted to hurt anyone and thankfully never did

 

[Dirty Dog]

Certainly explain how you drive w with one arm in a sling ?

Most arm fractures do not require a sling.

A broken elbow would likely make it more difficult. I've never had one, but the cast would be well past the elbow, wouldn't it?

Depends on the exact details of the break.But consider this. Put your hand on top of the steering wheel with your elbow at 90 degrees. Now turn the wheel. You'll notice that it is done mostly from the shoulder, which would be minimally affected (if at all) by the cast. Now notice that even if you're driving a stick, you don't need to turn the wheel significantly while you're shifting gears. Unless you're trying to set a lap record, which I certainly wouldn't recommend while casted.

 

[paitingman]

Um leg kicks have been in martial arts since the very beginning. Also you're missing the point completely

it's a joke, but please tell me what the point is

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Most arm fractures do not require a sling.



Depends on the exact details of the break.But consider this. Put your hand on top of the steering wheel with your elbow at 90 degrees. Now turn the wheel. You'll notice that it is done mostly from the shoulder, which would be minimally affected (if at all) by the cast. Now notice that even if you're driving a stick, you don't need to turn the wheel significantly while you're shifting gears. Unless you're trying to set a lap record, which I certainly wouldn't recommend while casted.

I was more thinking of the difficulty of shifting if I had to reach across to shift, and had that big cast in the way. I've never had to try it, but it seems difficult, at best.

I agree it's entirely possible to drive without shifting while turning in almost all cases. Without the cast, reaching across to shift is awkward, but entirely doable.

EDIT: That's with a relatively short-throw shifter. Can't remember the shifter in my truck well enough to know whether I could reasonably have reached all the gears reaching across to shift.

 

[paitingman]

My god you really are ignorant about fighting competition aren't you....they're trying to win that is it...yes injuries happen but no one is seeking to injure them they're not going in the ring hoping to break an arm...it's the same as football no player is trying to break another players leg with a tackle but it does happen and accepted as part of the risk. Same as fighting these guys are trying to win that is it...I've stepped in the ring numerous times and never once wanted to hurt anyone and thankfully never did

I would hope everyone would have the same attitude as you.
But you can't seriously say that there are not those who throw strikes with bad intentions. Those fighters definitely exist and I don't think people love it, but they are more vocal about this type of arm break stuff.

My current thinking is that there is a wavey, visceral line drawn where people go, "You shouldn't intentionally cause serious injury to your opponent... unless it's a good, honest knee to the face or something." lol

 

[Dirty Dog]

I was more thinking of the difficulty of shifting if I had to reach across to shift, and had that big cast in the way. I've never had to try it, but it seems difficult, at best.

I agree it's entirely possible to drive without shifting while turning in almost all cases. Without the cast, reaching across to shift is awkward, but entirely doable.

EDIT: That's with a relatively short-throw shifter. Can't remember the shifter in my truck well enough to know whether I could reasonably have reached all the gears reaching across to shift.

I just went out, sat in the Vette, and ran through all 6 gears with my elbow at 90 degrees. No problem. No, I wouldn't call it speed shifting. But I certainly wouldn't hesitate to drive it with a long arm cast in place.

 

[Anarax]

these can be useful in self-defense, but are dick moves in competition.

Even in a full contact pro MMA bout where your opponent is trying to take your head off?

Aoki chose a technique that gave him no option but to break the arm, in my opinion.

I think Aoki, like most fighters, chose a technique based on what his opponent gave him, in this example his arm. Aoki saw an opportunity to execute a legal technique on a fully conscious opponent. I don't see how that's different from a fighter kicking an opponent in the head with full force because they left their head exposed/leaned in too far.

That's actually just as bad as the person who doesn't have the control to stop when his opponent is unconscious.

I don't see how. One you have a conscious opponent punching you in the face and is leaving himself open to a legal fight-ending technique. In the other scenario your opponent is unconscious, you have already won the fight and your opponent is no longer a threat.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think Aoki, like most fighters, chose a technique based on what his opponent gave him, in this example his arm. Aoki saw an opportunity to execute a legal technique on a fully conscious opponent. I don't see how that's different from a fighter kicking an opponent in the head with full force because they left their head exposed/leaned in too far.

Every time I train, I have the option of using techniques (or completing them) that would hurt people. I choose those that won't (or don't complete the ones that would). Just because there's an opportunity for it, that doesn't change the ethics. As I said before, that technique really doesn't have another option. It's a break. A kick to the head is intended to cause a concussion, and I'm not really okay with that, either, but it's generally accepted by competitors that a concussion is not unlikely. What the people involved consider okay is part of ethics.

 

[pdg]

I can get all the gears in the land rover by reaching over with the wrong hand - I'd have to lean a bit though as it's got like a twenty foot throw between gears.

Just in a cast I could drive most cars safely.

With one arm (like really one arm) I probably wouldn't try to drive a manual.



Edit: I definitely wouldn't try to drive the land rover with one arm - at the best of times the steering seems to be a way of vaguely suggesting to the vehicle which way you'd prefer to go and hoping it happens to agree with you.

Oh, and it doesn't really self centre either.

 

[paitingman]

Every time I train, I have the option of using techniques (or completing them) that would hurt people. I choose those that won't (or don't complete the ones that would). Just because there's an opportunity for it, that doesn't change the ethics. As I said before, that technique really doesn't have another option. It's a break. A kick to the head is intended to cause a concussion, and I'm not really okay with that, either, but it's generally accepted by competitors that a concussion is not unlikely. What the people involved consider okay is part of ethics.

I relate to what you're saying. I keep bringing up knee kicks since it seems relevant. I've seen two camps arise since these types of techniques have become topic for discussion. All sorts of martial artists and pro fighters seem split on the issue.

The ethics are still not clear idk. Some act as if a line was never drawn, but other's always thought there was a line.
Everyone's got their personal ethics on the matter right now, but I think the MA and fight community should all be more vocal and very clear about what exactly the ethics, rules, and lines are with these techniques

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I relate to what you're saying. I keep bringing up knee kicks since it seems relevant. I've seen two camps arise since these types of techniques have become topic for discussion. All sorts of martial artists and pro fighters seem split on the issue.

The ethics are still not clear idk. Some act as if a line was never drawn, but other's always thought there was a line.
Everyone's got their personal ethics on the matter right now, but I think the MA and fight community should all be more vocal and very clear about what exactly the ethics, rules, and lines are with these techniques

I don't think there's a common clear line on the breaks, either. For me, breaks and hard knee kicks are not something I'd do in competition or training. I also wouldn't kick someone in the head as hard as I can in the name of winning. Nor punch them in the head as hard as I can in the name of winning. Nor come to the point (or probably even very close to it in most cases) of breaking something for the sake of winning. Others have a different view.

 

[Steve]

Every time I train, I have the option of using techniques (or completing them) that would hurt people. I choose those that won't (or don't complete the ones that would). Just because there's an opportunity for it, that doesn't change the ethics. As I said before, that technique really doesn't have another option. It's a break. A kick to the head is intended to cause a concussion, and I'm not really okay with that, either, but it's generally accepted by competitors that a concussion is not unlikely. What the people involved consider okay is part of ethics.

are you comparing your training to a professional MMA bout? Frankly, I don’t see how one has anything to do with the other.

 

[DanT]

Well yes it's intent that matters, your not I hope trying to cause brain damage or rupture a spleen, you are setting out to deliberately break an arm,

The problem is with mma, contests should be stopped if it's an obvious miss match, which seems like a lot of them from the little I've seen in telly at least they should be stopped at the first sign of distress, blurred eyes loss of balance serious blood injurt , co ordination, taking undefended blows, much as they ( should ) do with boxing.

Saying an arm break is ok, because the rest of the rule set is bordering on the barbaric is faulty logic to my mind

But when I did fight, I did try and kill the opponent within the rules of the sport. I tried to kill them when I kicked them in the head, I tried to break their leg when I kicked it, I tried to snap their neck when I slammed them... you can't read someone's intent, you have two people kicking the **** out of each other, what part of that includes not trying to hurt the other person? If I had the mindset of not hurting, that would have put ME in danger. Look at Mike Tyson, he repeatedly said he tried to kill his opponents. Should his punches be considered more barbaric and be illegal too?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

are you comparing your training to a professional MMA bout? Frankly, I don’t see how one has anything to do with the other.

Nope.

 

[Steve]

Nope.

Okay. So, then why are you talking about your training and what you do in class?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Okay. So, then why are you talking about your training and what you do in class?

It was in response to a post that seemed to assert that it was okay because Aoki just took what was available. Availability doesn't determine ethics.

 

[Steve]

It was in response to a post that seemed to assert that it was okay because Aoki just took what was available. Availability doesn't determine ethics.

Ethics? Sorry, man. This is apples and oranges. You’re talking about a Sunday pickup game of football vs the nfl. Sure, if you and I are playing football, don’t be a dick and hit me like you’re Kenny Easley. But What you do in your class has nothing to do with what happens between two professional mixed martial artists who are fighting for a living.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ethics? Sorry, man. This is apples and oranges. You’re talking about a Sunday pickup game of football vs the nfl. Sure, if you and I are playing football, don’t be a dick and hit me like you’re Kenny Easley. But What you do in your class has nothing to do with what happens between two professional mixed martial artists who are fighting for a living.

To me, the ethics aren't entirely different. As I said in a previous post, that's just me, though, and others have a different view.

 

[Steve]

I think tez used to post a picture with an Harlan Ellison quote that I wish I could find right now. It seriously seems like you’re posting an opinion about something you’re wholly unfamiliar with. And why then would you say ,”nope,” when I asked if you were comparing your training to professional mma? That’s exactly what you’re doing and it’s incredibly naive.

 

[Anarax]

My god you really are ignorant about fighting competition aren't you

No hh. KO/TKO shots are thrown with those intentions, KO/TKO=Trauma. The Pros throw with immense power and they are aware of that.

they're trying to win that is it

Winning can be done by KO/TKO

yes injuries happen but no one is seeking to injure them they're not going in the ring hoping to break an arm

They go in hoping to win and will do what's necessary to do so.

.it's the same as football no player is trying to break another players leg with a tackle but it does happen and accepted as part of the risk.

That's completely different. Football is won by scoring points with touchdowns and field goals. MMA matches can/are won by bearing your opponent via KO/TKO/Submission.