Anyone do weight training on top of MA?

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Alan0354

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I don't understand this. Are you saying that you cannot get any better due to age, or that you have so much skill and experience that there is no room for improvement? I assure you, both statements are wrong.

I have more than a few years, in life as well as MA, and over the past few years I have come to understand my art more than the previous 40 years. And, I have improved in some ways physically as well (thanks to that greater understanding).

If you are a 3rd, 4th, 5th or even 6th degree black belt and think you're at the end of the road, your education has been lacking for not giving you the tools to realize how much more there is to learn and even improve certain physical abilities and skills.

You are free to feel satisfied with whatever level you're at. I'm a believer in free will. Weights are good (I had a good workout this morning). And they are simple to do. IMO, MA takes a lot more conviction and will power. Doing weights is the easier path. But the harder path often yields greater rewards.
No, I am not that good, just at my age and injured condition, I won't be going far. Too many limiting factor. Strength training benefit me more at this point.
 
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Alan0354

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I don't care how good your technique is, it won't work against superman unless you have comparable strength. I say superman, I meant literal superman. A hypothetical being for a hypothetical situation. If you want to go more realistic, Haf臘籀r Bj繹rnsson is big and strong enough (literally the strongest man in the world) that the average person will not beat him no matter the technique. There are videos of this dude letting professional grapplers try their technique against him and he just muscles through it. Technique can definitely overcome someone stronger but not when the gap is that drastic.
I am all for weight training, but I won't go this far!!! Strength goes a long way......but not that long!!!
 

isshinryuronin

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No, I am not that good, just at my age and injured condition, I won't be going far. Too many limiting factor
yeah, we have to deal with certain physical realities. this is more true in grappling and contact striking arts. it's less true in kung fu and karate that can be beneficial for most everyone, regardless of their condition as it can be done solo and with minimum stress on the body. just don't be too eager to abandon MA. explore ways to adapt it to your condition. whatever you do, keep challenging yourself and don't "go quietly into the night."
 
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Alan0354

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yeah, we have to deal with certain physical realities. this is more true in grappling and contact striking arts. it's less true in kung fu and karate that can be beneficial for most everyone, regardless of their condition as it can be done solo and with minimum stress on the body. just don't be too eager to abandon MA. explore ways to adapt it to your condition. whatever you do, keep challenging yourself and don't "go quietly into the night."
I am still practicing on my own. Still working on heavy bags and practicing kicks and punches in air. Luckily I don't have to choose between weights and this, I am splitting my workout into half and half. I count this as aerobics!!!

I have no plan to go to any class, I am doing it in my own paste. I am just coming out of back injury from 4 weeks ago, today is the first time I actually almost going back to my original intensity and I feel good.
 
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Alan0354

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Weight training and strength building has always been and is always a part of Martial Arts training.

People just confuse big muscles as the answer to being a stronger fighter and better fighter. Because of this they end up developing their strength the wrong way. They end up up with bigger muscles that begins to restrict movement. Here's an example.


There is a reason why all fighters have a similar build. The activity dictates the muscle build. If a person is only lifting weights to build strength for fighting then they are not doing the fighting movement that will dictate how the muscles should be built. When martial artist make the argument about building muscle, this is what I assume they are talking about. I'm only saying this because I have never had a martial arts teacher that was weak. It was totally opposite. They were crazy strong, but they weren't build like body builders which made it "crazy." They look like everyday people but had some incredible power and strength. Could they fight? From what I hear from others, yes. But they weren't weak by any definition.

If there is a question about Strength and Martial Arts. Then it should be: What is the best way to build strength for Martial Arts?
I finally watched both video. My original comment was just by looking at the image of all the muscles, those are big muscles.

The first one is weak, I bet he never even think about punching, it's like starting from ground scratch.

The second one is NOT SO BAD. Yes, it's not that good, BUT so are a lot of people.

I think a lot of people think they are better than they really are. When one practice, they feel they are doing it right, they feel good. They might be into a brutal awakening if they record it and watch it. I have not been posting in the weapon section here, I did not make a video for over 1/2 year. I feel I improve a lot since the beginning of the year, I feel good......AND I don't dare to make a video and watch it because I might be disappointed.

Also, there are a lot of armchair quarterbacks. It's easy to criticizing others, doing it is a different story. I would definitely not going to challenge the second one for sure. Just because he doesn't look fast doesn't mean there is no stopping power. If you watch UFC heavy weight fights, they are slow, sloppy, but one punch that doesn't look like anything can knock the opponent out cold. This is a short video, you can see some knockouts that look like nothing and the guy dropped:


Don't underestimate the power of raw muscle. I am sure people watching this will have a lot of criticism how they punch, no body rotation, slow and all that. You seriously think any light weight UFC top fighter can survive in the octagon with a so-so heavy weight? I bet the light weight one can dance around and land a few nice looking hits, but then one big punch from the big guy, and the light weight goes flying.
 

J. Pickard

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Depends on what is being done. Grappling or striking. If I had fight a much larger and stronger opponent then I would rather play the striking game.. Easy choice for me.
Haf臘籀r Bj繹rnsson is also a trained boxer. I wouldnt fight this guy without a weapon. He's 6ft 9in of solid muscle and knows how to fight. Maybe someone like Holyfield or Tyson in their prime would stand a chance, but anyone significantly smaller than this guy is just asking to get crushed. He put out a vid of him and Conor McGregor doing some playful sparring and McGreggor's legs were about as long as Bj繹rnsson's arms.
 

J. Pickard

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No matter how strong a person may be, a good foot sweep can always take him down.

Here is an example that technique can defeat pure strength.

When A pulls B and B resists. If A releases his pulling, B's own resisting force can throw B down. So when your opponent wants to move back and if you help him to move back more than he wants to, that's technique.

It's like when this competition begins, if you cut the rope, people on both ends will fall. The stronger they are, the harder they fall.

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I agree to a point, but in my very extreme and rare example, this would not work. against a bungling oaf, sure. Against a trained athlete/fighter who is also nearly 7ft tall and the strongest man in the world your best bet is to hire the next strongest fighter or get a weapon. IF the strength was due to a wish, which is what I was replying to, then sky is the limit and you actually could be as strong as superman. No matter how hypothetically good your technique is, you aren't beating a hypothetical man that can take a fully loaded freight train to the face and not even flinch.
 

JowGaWolf

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Haf臘籀r Bj繹rnsson is also a trained boxer. I wouldnt fight this guy without a weapon. He's 6ft 9in of solid muscle and knows how to fight. Maybe someone like Holyfield or Tyson in their prime would stand a chance, but anyone significantly smaller than this guy is just asking to get crushed. He put out a vid of him and Conor McGregor doing some playful sparring and McGreggor's legs were about as long as Bj繹rnsson's arms.
Ever see a small dog go against a bear. You gotta out maneuver the guy lol. Chop at those legs lol.
 

JowGaWolf

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Ever see a small dog go against a bear. You gotta out maneuver the guy lol. Chop at those legs lol.
If his legs are harder than yours then your legs won't be able to do much chopping.
 

J. Pickard

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Ever see a small dog go against a bear. You gotta out maneuver the guy lol. Chop at those legs lol.
If I was gonna fight Bjornsson and that was my strategy, I would use a literal axe to do the chopping. Not taking any chances.
 
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Alan0354

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Haf臘籀r Bj繹rnsson is also a trained boxer. I wouldnt fight this guy without a weapon. He's 6ft 9in of solid muscle and knows how to fight. Maybe someone like Holyfield or Tyson in their prime would stand a chance, but anyone significantly smaller than this guy is just asking to get crushed. He put out a vid of him and Conor McGregor doing some playful sparring and McGreggor's legs were about as long as Bj繹rnsson's arms.
That makes the world of difference. He doesn't even have to be that good at it, at least he's trained. Height makes a day and night difference also. Anyone takes him lightly is going to be in a BRUTAL awakening facing him.

Like the video I posted in post #45, people can sit back and laugh at all the things they did wrong, go into the octagon and they'll see. Just one lazy punch can drop a 200+lbs trained guy. People REALLY NEED TO WATCH THE VIDEO.
 
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Alan0354

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When I was in the gym, I knew two guys, one is a famous instructor in TKD, has a few schools around the bay area. Obviously he's good. But he was thin, He could hardly push 135lbs bench(two 45, one on each side). I know another guy, he's about 220lbs, he did 365lbs incline press(3X45lbs + 25lbs on each side), also he practice some MA. If the two guy get into real fight, I put my bet on the big guy. Even 5:1 odds.

Key is the strong guy has to have some training, one cannot rely only on strength. But with some training(like a year), strength is very important. With height, that is going to be a big advantage.
 
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Alan0354

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If I was gonna fight Bjornsson and that was my strategy, I would use a literal axe to do the chopping. Not taking any chances.
Ha ha, I won't even want to try with my cane!!! Even I've been practicing stick fight for over a year!!! You need a gun!!!

I don't know why a lot of people keep talking as if the muscle guys never spend a day practicing fighting. I know plenty of strong guys in the gym( at least over 225lbs bench). QUITE A FEW doing both weight and MA. We talked a lot about both MA and weights. Those are strong people. DO NOT assume muscle guy don't do MA.
 
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JowGaWolf

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If I was gonna fight Bjornsson and that was my strategy, I would use a literal axe to do the chopping. Not taking any chances.
Guy is big for sure. The first time I met someone that tall was professional NBA players. TV just doesn't capture his big those guys are. But this guy would be a giant among giants. You would be fine so long as you don't eat a punch full on. Just the weight of it would be miserable and it would have to be his hardest punch.
 

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We've definitely had this argument before... lets steer it somewhere new.

Yes, I do weight training as well as my MA training. I don't specifically do it for my MA though. One of my big things is increasing longevity- living a healthy life for as long as you can, and the number one way to do that is to lift weights. It increases bone density when you are young, and decreases the rate of decline past a certain age, it improves strength, it can improve mobility, stability, coordination and control. All things which are required if you're going to stay healthy and fit into your old age.

On top of all that being strong is just plain useful. You can carry the shopping home, you can move furniture etc.
 
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Alan0354

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We've definitely had this argument before... lets steer it somewhere new.

Yes, I do weight training as well as my MA training. I don't specifically do it for my MA though. One of my big things is increasing longevity- living a healthy life for as long as you can, and the number one way to do that is to lift weights. It increases bone density when you are young, and decreases the rate of decline past a certain age, it improves strength, it can improve mobility, stability, coordination and control. All things which are required if you're going to stay healthy and fit into your old age.

On top of all that being strong is just plain useful. You can carry the shopping home, you can move furniture etc.
Yep, when one gets old, it's the quality of life that matters. Everything is better doing weights, not just for MA.
 
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