Any experiences with "bujutsu"?

[BaktoBasics]

Hi, finally found a martial arts school 5mins away from home!!!

But, it is "Issei Ryu Bujutsu" - what is this? Never heard of it. Is it legit? Here is the website: http://www.isseiryu.com/
Would appreciate any of you japanese arts enthusiasts whether i'm wasting my time or not - thanks alot guys!

Is'nt bujutsu just "martial arts"? So, is this a synergy of japanese martial arts or something?

 

[Aegis]

Hmmm.... no art history, no instructor profile, no real art description, $100 starting membership fee, $15 90-minute classes...

Unless they offer a trial lesson or two and it suits you well, you can probably find much cheaper arts out there!

 

[The Kai]

Not alot of info on the website.One red flag is the overuse of titles

 

[chinto01]

On their site they claim to be a "new academy introducing a new art" My opinion is let someone else be the test dummy. You need to look at what you want to get out of your training and decide on a dojo from there. Also visit a few, talk with the owner and see if you can have a trial class or classes. most would be happy to do that for prospective members. Good Luck!

 

[arnisador]

I'm...suspicious. Proceed, but proceed cautiously.

 

[sidekick]

Hi All,
I am a member of Issei Ryu Bujutsu. I am also responsible for the publicity of the school, which includes the website. Our site has been live for less than a month. We don't have the instructors' profiles, our "shop" page is just a placeholder, we would like a lot more photos online... may be our newsletters, articles and interviews... but give us a chance, we'll get there.

Yes, we are a new school, teaching a new style. This doubles the challenges for us. We have to work that much harder to prove our credibility and professionalism.

We are not a martial art steeped in tradition, with pure lineage dating back to ancient Japan. But it doesn't mean that what we are being taught is any less valid. With all respect, in ancient Japan, people didn't get attacked with guns or syringes; they didn't walk around with mobile phones so they could call for help; they didn't have sneakers which may help them run faster; and they didn't have to worry about what to do if they were grabbed and pulled into a stranger's car... you are reading my post on the internet... we live in a different kind of world, for better or worse.

Our founders (Christian Oakley and Shaun Brewster) are people who believe that because something is good, doesn't mean it can't be better. You can't EVER be good enough that you have nothing more to learn. They are people who do not follow blindly, yet are open minded and humble enough to believe that they can learn something from everybody.

Bruce Lee pioneered Jeet Kun Do. Jeet Kun Do does not date back to ancient Japan... but would you challenge Bruce Lee if he's alive? Now, we're not claiming to be Bruce Lees here... I'm just recognising the magnitude of what our founders are trying to achieve, and the courage and ambition it takes to embark on this feat. You can't ask for better inspirations than that. With the school being in operation for only 6mths and already with 70+ members, I can safely claim that I'm not the only one standing in their corner.

As members, your input will be more than valued... it is vital... you are as much a part of this journey as we are. There is a forum on our website http://www.isseiryu.com/forum.html. I invite you to post your queries there and get firsthand feedback from our members.

Sure, it's easy walking down wide, well paved paths... but if you wish to venture down the path less travelled, try out our free class and make up your own mind. Post a review online if you wish... everyone is entitled their say... but to be fair, you should check us out first before forming your opinion. Choosing a martial art can be a very personal thing. We are not for everyone. But then again, no martial art is. You have to find what's right for you.

Thanks for taking the time to read what I have to say... and thank you for taking interest in our school.

 

[Aegis]

Hi All,
I am a member of Issei Ryu Bujutsu. I am also responsible for the publicity of the school, which includes the website. Our site has been live for less than a month. We don't have the instructors' profiles, our "shop" page is just a placeholder, we would like a lot more photos online... may be our newsletters, articles and interviews... but give us a chance, we'll get there.

Cool, nice of you to put in an appearence so soon! As you can tell by my post earlier in this thread, there are many questions to be asked about your style and its history that would be useful information to add to the webpage.

Yes, we are a new school, teaching a new style. This doubles the challenges for us. We have to work that much harder to prove our credibility and professionalism.

It's good that you state on the site that you're a new style, as many new styles try to claim lineage to old styles,a nd then confusion arises.

Would it be possible to get some information on the styles that Issei Ryu comes from, as this would offer some real insight to some of us as to the training emphases that one might find at your school.

Bruce Lee pioneered Jeet Kun Do. Jeet Kun Do does not date back to ancient Japan... but would you challenge Bruce Lee if he's alive? Now, we're not claiming to be Bruce Lees here... I'm just recognising the magnitude of what our founders are trying to achieve, and the courage and ambition it takes to embark on this feat. You can't ask for better inspirations than that. With the school being in operation for only 6mths and already with 70+ members, I can safely claim that I'm not the only one standing in their corner.

You'll understand if many of us don't give immediate respect to anyone who makes a new style. These days you can almost find more new styles than old ones, many of which seem to be somewhat lacking. It's nothing personal, but when you see people creating a new style and promoting themselves within their new style, then teaching essentially watered down versions of older styles, it's somewhat hard to remain in awe of founders. If your style is any good, it will survive whatever people ask/throw at it, and then it will get respect.

As members, your input will be more than valued... it is vital... you are as much a part of this journey as we are. There is a forum on our website http://www.isseiryu.com/forum.html. I invite you to post your queries there and get firsthand feedback from our members.

If it's all the same to you, I'd rather ask my questions here. Certain "masters" run their own fora and edit posts according to their whims, so it's safer to post questions and answers on neutral ground (so to speak). Again, nothing personal, just bad experiences in the past!

Sure, it's easy walking down wide, well paved paths... but if you wish to venture down the path less travelled, try out our free class and make up your own mind. Post a review online if you wish... everyone is entitled their say... but to be fair, you should check us out first before forming your opinion. Choosing a martial art can be a very personal thing. We are not for everyone. But then again, no martial art is. You have to find what's right for you.

Good advice, especially with a free trial class.



In short, a brief bio of the founders' training histories would be nice, as would a more detailed description of what the martial art is all about and how it differs from its parent arts.

Cheers!

 

[Aegis]

Oh, I forgot to ask one final question

Why was the name "bujutsu" taken? Surely if this is a new style it should really have a totally new name rather than implying that it's one of the older Japanese martial arts?

 

[clfsean]

Oh, I forgot to ask one final question

Why was the name "bujutsu" taken? Surely if this is a new style it should really have a totally new name rather than implying that it's one of the older Japanese martial arts?

That's the $10,000 question now isn't it?

Why decry what they're not so strongly, but then name it that very thing?

 

[kroh]

Sidekick,

Very nicely done post. You presented yourself clearly and conscisely. Very nicely done.

I also agree that more information is needed. And also keep in mind, that you brought up Bruce. He had detractors for years . If at first you don't get any love...keep plugging.

You seem to have an open spirit and the web site is not setting off too many bells and whistles (you yourself said that you have been live for a short time and you are still working things out). I think however that you should definately get up some more info as soon as possible. As you get more exposure you will be under more scrutiny. There are going to be times when you want to start allying yourselves with all sorts of organizations to be legitimately recognized as a system. Stay away from this. Most of them will send you a certificate for a fee and never verify a thing. As more people are becoming internet savy they will start checking on the people they go to train with. And they will also find out what places are verifiable and what are not ( ie which of these organizations are reputable and which ones are from mail order*wink*)

AS their web master I would encourage you to stay on forums like this and network. Show what you have and make some links to share information with.

The only question I had was in the pricing section of your site you have a membership fee and class fees. Do you have to be a member and pay for classes ? Or does one or the other cover the classes. If the Later is true then you have very reasonable rates for your members ( and not that bad for non members ).

Regards,
Walt

 

[sidekick]

Woah! I wasn't expecting the stream of questions...

Would it be possible to get some information on the styles that Issei Ryu comes from, as this would offer some real insight to some of us as to the training emphases that one might find at your school.

Yes, but this is tougher than you might imagine... I guess you can say that we draw inspiration from Ninjutsu, Jujutsu and Bujinkan Bujutsu, as they are the main martial arts that Christian and Shaun trained / trains in. But it would be wrong to say that we teach those forms of martial arts. We feel that there's too much departure from those styles to claim that.

On our website we state that "Issei Ryu is derived from a blend of traditional Japanese martial arts and adapted for modern day application." That's the best summary describing what we're about.

We labelled our style "Bujutsu" because it is non-specific. It simply means "warrior art" or "martial art". We recognise that our influences stem from traditional Japanese martial arts, hence the choice to go with a Japanese name. "Issei" means "one lifetime" and "Ryu" means "style / form". I don't believe we're misleading anyone. On the contrary, it's the most appropriate choice of name we could come up with.

As for what our style covers, you can find a brief outline at http://www.isseiryu.com/index.html and
http://www.isseiryu.com/syllabus.html.
Our members get a more comprehensive syllabus in their member folders.

It's nothing personal, but when you see people creating a new style and promoting themselves within their new style, then teaching essentially watered down versions of older styles, it's somewhat hard to remain in awe of founders. If your style is any good, it will survive whatever people ask/throw at it, and then it will get respect.

Yes, I know. Action speaks louder than words... we will have to wait and see. We have the best of intentions to do the right thing and not the easy thing, and the feedback so far have been positive.

In short, a brief bio of the founders' training histories would be nice, as would a more detailed description of what the martial art is all about and how it differs from its parent arts.

We're working on that. I'm not dodging the question or anything... but have you ever tried to describe your martial art to someone who don't know anything about it? It's hard. It can come out really lame, like describing the computer as a cross between a tv and a typewriter... and erm, we're trying very hard not to come across as lame.

I guess the best solution to this issue may be to have some video clips online... I'm not sure... Do you have any other suggestions? What do you need to see so you can have a clearer idea of what we're about?

I'm compiling the instructors' profiles and they will be online soon.

All things said, we are new. We have much to learn and have lots of growing to do. In the meantime, we will take any kind of guidance and advice we can get. All we want is for people to give us a fair chance and not destroy the credibility we've been working so hard to retain.

 

[sidekick]

The only question I had was in the pricing section of your site you have a membership fee and class fees. Do you have to be a member and pay for classes ? Or does one or the other cover the classes. If the Later is true then you have very reasonable rates for your members ( and not that bad for non members ).

Hi Walt,
We require our members to pay both the membership fees as well as class fees. I'm not sure how the training fees work in the US, but we're in Australia... specifically Victoria, Australia. In $AUD, our pricing is very fair. We know many other schools that charge higher fees.

And thanks for the support

 

[Aegis]

Woah! I wasn't expecting the stream of questions...

Sorry, we're obviously inquisitive people

Yes, but this is tougher than you might imagine... I guess you can say that we draw inspiration from Ninjutsu, Jujutsu and Bujinkan Bujutsu, as they are the main martial arts that Christian and Shaun trained / trains in. But it would be wrong to say that we teach those forms of martial arts. We feel that there's too much departure from those styles to claim that.

It would be useful to know how much time the founders studied these arts for, and also where their variation from their original styles comes from. For example, if they've learned the above styles and have included more striking in their own style, then it would be interesting to know where the newer techniques came from.

On our website we state that "Issei Ryu is derived from a blend of traditional Japanese martial arts and adapted for modern day application." That's the best summary describing what we're about.

We labelled our style "Bujutsu" because it is non-specific. It simply means "warrior art" or "martial art". We recognise that our influences stem from traditional Japanese martial arts, hence the choice to go with a Japanese name. "Issei" means "one lifetime" and "Ryu" means "style / form". I don't believe we're misleading anyone. On the contrary, it's the most appropriate choice of name we could come up with.

I suppose the issue is the implication of that name. Bujutsu was the collective name of the martial arts used by the samurai rather than just being any martial art for example. The name would imply that this is a traditional Japanese system, which you've said it isn't. As long as that is made clear to everyone involved in the system though, that shouldn't be a problem.

As for what our style covers, you can find a brief outline at http://www.isseiryu.com/index.html and
http://www.isseiryu.com/syllabus.html.
Our members get a more comprehensive syllabus in their member folders.

Yeah, I saw that, but it doesn't actually give much information on the system itself. Would it be possible to host the full syllabus on the website? That can be extremely insightful for an "outsider", more so than a simply description of the system.

We're working on that. I'm not dodging the question or anything... but have you ever tried to describe your martial art to someone who don't know anything about it? It's hard. It can come out really lame, like describing the computer as a cross between a tv and a typewriter... and erm, we're trying very hard not to come across as lame.

I have actually... I've been at the university "fresher's fairs" for both of the jujutsu clubs I train in trying to get people to sign up for our art. Explaining what our style of jujutsu is can be quite tricky, but eventually I got a reasonable spiel going.

I guess the best solution to this issue may be to have some video clips online... I'm not sure... Do you have any other suggestions? What do you need to see so you can have a clearer idea of what we're about?

Video clips can be good, though the description should be very clear as to the level of intensity shown. For example, several systems show their techniques solely in isolation, on completely unmoving opponents. This is fine, but unless you then also include some pictures of it in dynamic context, it will not help much.

The syllabus would also help, as I mentioned above.

I'm compiling the instructors' profiles and they will be online soon.

Cool

All things said, we are new. We have much to learn and have lots of growing to do. In the meantime, we will take any kind of guidance and advice we can get. All we want is for people to give us a fair chance and not destroy the credibility we've been working so hard to retain.

Everyone gets a fair chance, but starting up a new system is always going to be a trial by fire, and in my view it should remain that way. As I've said before, there are multitudes of new styles springing into existance, many formed by instructors who haven't settled in a single art long enough to gain a teaching grade, so it's reached the point where skepticism is a healthy outlook.

Good luck with updating the site!

 

[Aegis]

Indeed! When I first saw the price in dollars I assumed we were talking about a US-based school. In this case the prices are much fairer than I had originally thought!

 

[kroh]

Ausie bucks...cool... much love to our freinds on the other side down south.

Good luck with the site and the system and try to keep us in the loop as to what is going on... I like the way you have come across so far and it would be interesting to see where you go from here.

Regards,
Walt

 

[hammer]

Ausie bucks...cool... much love to our freinds on the other side down south.

Good luck with the site and the system and try to keep us in the loop as to what is going on... I like the way you have come across so far and it would be interesting to see where you go from here.

Regards,
Walt

Hey Kroh, You have to love the Aussie's, we are Unique.!!!!

Cheers

 

[The Kai]

Since your website is'nt real specific as of yet, given the three systems mentioned it seems a given that you guys are ninpo based

 

[BaktoBasics]

Thanks everyone for your help. Also thanks to sidekick for his in depth explanation - thanks.

Been in martial arts all my life but have never done anything japanese. Although traditional arts have stood the test of time, this new system should be allowed a chance. I may even give it a go some day soon.

Sidekick - can you please let me know if the training times on your site are accurate? Can I come along and look - will give you all the low down.


Cheers

 

[compleks]

BacktoBasics,
I have been training in 'issei ryu bujutsu' since the school was established. Though my opinion is obviously biased I think the style is great, and deffinately worth a look. I don't train at the Altona club, but I believe the classtimes on the site are accurate. I'm sure you would be more then welcome to pop in and check out a few classes to see what you think. It would also be a good idea to trial a class for free before making any decissions.
It's good to see you on the clubs forum aswell, hopefully you like the style and decide to stick around. If you have any questions about the classes make sure you let us know.
Maybe I will see you around some time.

 

[sidekick]

Yes BacktoBasics,
The classtimes on the website are correct. Please feel free to speak to Shaun before or after class. He's the instructor there.