An interesting article that all should read!

[paihequan]

Here a link to a very interesting article that all should read, especially given the climate currently being witnessed on Martial Talk:

The article is entitled:Tilting at Windmills: Obsessive Fraud Busting in the Martial Arts


http://www.philelmore.com/martial/quixote.htm

 

[Aegis]

See here

 

[Matt Stone]

While you may well be right in directing our attention, yet again to Phil's article, I would say that another article should be penned...

"Rubber Rafting Down 'De Nile: The Stubborn Refusal of Some to Acknowledge the Questionability of their Claims."

There are extremes on both sides of the coin - Extreme Fraud Busters, and Extreme Frauds.

It seems to be a common tactic amongst those with questionable martial backgrounds to turn the argument into a personal attack (which, at some level, I suppose it is; though the initial "attack" is aimed at their claims to divinity, super ultimate titles, and secret knowledge from Atlantis), to turn the discussion away from their claims and toward the methods by which they have been exposed ("They were so rude when they exposed my fraudulent background! They should be more polite and tolerant of my illegal activites!"), and to present short lived penitent behavior as excusal of decades long misbehavior...

I think the sword is double-edged, and it certainly cuts both ways. Some folks are too zealous in their prosecution of frauds, and some folks are too concerned with not interfering for fear of stepping on someone's tender sensitivities.

Me? I'd rather err on behalf of the ignorant on whom the frauds relentlessly prey. Any "outing" I have ever participated in has been solely to ensure that information is provided to those who simply don't know better. I have seen too many fakes pocket too much cash from honest people that were too suckered to ask questions.

*** CAVEAT - The comments in this post are not directed toward any individual in particular, in whole or in part, nor toward any on particular organization or association. The comments are intended to be general in nature, and any implication that they are targeting individuals is entirely the misinterpretation of said comments by that individual. ***

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[paihequan]

Aegis,

I see, Thank you for raising that. Much appreciated!

 

[paihequan]

Yiliquan1

Good post! Agreed it is a double edged sword. All these type of arguments achieve is to cause disharmony. And this if anything is my point.

 

[Matt Stone]

Paihequan -

Disharmony is only achieved when those found guilty of misdoings attempt to explain, qualify or otherwise excuse activities and claims that are widely held to be false, fraudulent or unethical. That is usually when issues arise, though in some cases tempers flare before then...

There are specific individuals who, without any direct interaction, most people would be able to make a fairly accurate judgement of their legitimacy and trustworthiness. Oom Yung Doe springs to mind unbidden - a quick visit to their website alone is sufficient to draw attention to what certainly must be questionable claims (jumping from an 8 story building?). There are many others, however I'm not here to take sniper shots at them :snipe: Besides, they have been crucified often enough by others, and I'm tired...

I have had people engage me in discussions regarding their belief that my training was questionable. I have engaged others in discussions about the questionability of their arts. I stay cool, because I have no skeletons to hide. To a man, they have all ultimately gotten angry and abusive, resorting to name calling and threats.

In my experience, it is often a case of the person who is being questioned going on the defensive rather than the other way around.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[chufeng]

There is a story I read when I was in third grade...

It was about an Emperor who went out on parade with no clothes on...you should read that, as well...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Phil Elmore]

Tenth Dan in Bul Shi Tsu: Absurd Claims and Martial Efficacy