An innocent person killed in a crossfire

[PhotonGuy]

I just found this article. It's tragic, but the officer was just doing his job, although there is a debate if he could've done it better and not acted so impulsively as some of the commenters have said, even though the innocent death was accidental and not intentional.

http://newprovidence.patch.com/grou...t-to-death-by-police-during-hostage-situation

 

[Takai]

It is tragic but, after reading some of the comments I think some of those people must live in an idyllic world where armchair quarterbacking is a valid profession.

 

[Carol]

I don't understand why people aren't pounding on the perp for putting the innocent in the situation to begin with!

 

[ballen0351]

It is tragic but, after reading some of the comments I think some of those people must live in an idyllic world where armchair quarterbacking is a valid profession.

People watch too much TV. They think cops should be able to shoot the gun out of the guys hand and not put a scratch on him.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Here is more on it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...is-tells-seeing-Andrea-Rebello-shot-dead.html

 

[ballen0351]

He had been found guilty of robbery in the 1st degree and had an extensive criminal background going back to 1999 with multiple convictions for theft and assault.
He also spent time in prison and was convicted again for handling contraband goods while behind bars.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-Andrea-Rebello-shot-dead.html#ixzz2xyIEsNmF
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Well heres the 1st problem had he still been in jail this would not have happened

 

[Tgace]

Well heres the 1st problem had he still been in jail this would not have happened

Exactly. Nobody seems to notice THAT.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Who I am ticked off with the most, aside from the criminal, is the parole board for letting him out.

 

[MJS]

Well heres the 1st problem had he still been in jail this would not have happened

Exactly! Another reason why I say to the bleeding hearts who think that rehab is the option...well, newsflash for ya...a dirtbag like this can't be fixed!

 

[Takai]

People watch too much TV. They think cops should be able to shoot the gun out of the guys hand and not put a scratch on him.

You mean you can't do that?

On a more serious note, I think that you just nailed it there Ballen. People can't tell reality and fiction. And the fiction that the media portrays really isn't helping.

 

[arnisador]

Exactly! Another reason why I say to the bleeding hearts who think that rehab is the option...well, newsflash for ya...a dirtbag like this can't be fixed!

The parole board and the correctional system in general are under pressure b/c there isn't money enough to lock people up forever. Place the blame where it belongs: Those who are unwilling to vote for legislators who will set taxes at a rate that permits proper operation of such facilities.

 

[Takai]

A valid point Arnisador. IMHO I think the blame probably extends a little further back. At some point in time the perpetrator just didn't get the message of what acceptable behavior is. I know that I was certainly raised with a different set of rules that he was playing by.

The problem really is culture that goes with the "me first, I can do what I want" mentality. Yes stiffer punishments might help but, a whole generation really needs to be reintroduced to principles like integrity and respect.

 

[MJS]

The parole board and the correctional system in general are under pressure b/c there isn't money enough to lock people up forever. Place the blame where it belongs: Those who are unwilling to vote for legislators who will set taxes at a rate that permits proper operation of such facilities.

Fine with me. Whoever the blame needs to be placed on, then place it. OTOH, I can think of a few ways to save money, starting with the useless programs that they offer these dirt bags in prison. Sorry, I worked there long enough, to see half the inmates in a block, go for their 2hr Bible Study, NA/AA, etc, and no progress is made. I mean, if they really wanted to improve their life, they'd have started before they landed in prison and they wouldn't be repeat offenders.

I'm sure there's money, problem is, the people in control of it, don't know how to use it properly.

 

[K-man]

Not to apportion blame but what was the cop thinking when he enters a hostage situation like this? Surely there were trained hostage negotiators available.
:asian:

 

[ballen0351]

Not to apportion blame but what was the cop thinking when he enters a hostage situation like this? Surely there were trained hostage negotiators available.
:asian:

No it sounds like it was a burglary in progress call when he entered the house that's when it turned into a hostage situation. Then bad guy pointed gun at cop. Cop shot. This wasn't ending well either way she was dead. Also most small departments don't have hostage negotiations people

 

[K-man]

No it sounds like it was a burglary in progress call when he entered the house that's when it turned into a hostage situation. Then bad guy pointed gun at cop. Cop shot. This wasn't ending well either way she was dead. Also most small departments don't have hostage negotiations people

But this place is only 20 or so miles from NY. Here they will secure the perimeter and wait hours if need be until the right personnel arrive. Having reread the articles it looks like the police guy wasn't given all the facts. The girl that called the police certainly knew enough to have indicated that the situation was far more serious than a simple burglary.
:asian:

 

[ballen0351]

But this place is only 20 or so miles from NY. Here they will secure the perimeter and wait hours if need be until the right personnel arrive.

Depends on the situation. You and I can't know the actual info given to the officers or what the 911 caller said. A lot of times what is said on the phone and then dispatched to the officer is totally different then what's really going on. In reality its a lose lose situation. As sad as it is that she died the officer probably saved the lives of the rest of the people in the house. Had they waited and the bad guy killed everyone in the house then it would have been "coward cop should have went in and saved them.". Like columbine shooting. In this case he went in and it went bad. So now it's " stupid cop with hero complex killed her he should have waited outside.". Lose lose

Having reread the articles it looks like the police guy wasn't given all the facts. The girl that called the police certainly knew enough to have indicated that the situation was far more serious than a simple burglary.
:asian:

Thats what happens.

 

[SavageMan]

As a former Deputy I hate to see armchair quarter backs from the media and the general public berate officers in bad sittuations. They never have all the details, haven't recieved the training, and generaly have never had to deal with the high stress life and death sittuations that come with Law Enforcement, Corrections, Fire and Medic fields. That being said, when you have recieved the training for active shooter / hostage / armed assailant there are steps taken for the safety of the public and the officers involved. Yes our correction system is severly flawed as a Federal CO I will more than agree to that. Does that make any differance in what happened? No. Could have happened if it was a first time prep strung out on meth too. Is it wrong that a career criminal was out on the street. Yes, but that isn't the issue. Eight shots is where I find a problem. For one I have never been to a training where you confront an armed crook with a hostage without having a second. Two I dont know of any agency that trains in the spray and pray method. Double tap yes, Empty half a magazine no. I realize that in the stress of the moment quick judgement calls are made. Maybe it would have went down the same way if he did just double tap. But the idea of throwing eight rounds at the guy when he has a human shield? As professionals we also have to admit that there are cowboys out there waiting for the chance to have a Leathal Weapon confrontation. Given the info avalible this could certainly be one of them.

 

[ballen0351]

As a former Deputy I hate to see armchair quarter backs from the media and the general public berate officers in bad sittuations. They never have all the details, haven't recieved the training, and generaly have never had to deal with the high stress life and death sittuations that come with Law Enforcement, Corrections, Fire and Medic fields. That being said, when you have recieved the training for active shooter / hostage / armed assailant there are steps taken for the safety of the public and the officers involved. Yes our correction system is severly flawed as a Federal CO I will more than agree to that. Does that make any differance in what happened? No. Could have happened if it was a first time prep strung out on meth too. Is it wrong that a career criminal was out on the street. Yes, but that isn't the issue. Eight shots is where I find a problem. For one I have never been to a training where you confront an armed crook with a hostage without having a second. Two I dont know of any agency that trains in the spray and pray method. Double tap yes, Empty half a magazine no. I realize that in the stress of the moment quick judgement calls are made. Maybe it would have went down the same way if he did just double tap. But the idea of throwing eight rounds at the guy when he has a human shield? As professionals we also have to admit that there are cowboys out there waiting for the chance to have a Leathal Weapon confrontation. Given the info avalible this could certainly be one of them.

Well as a current officer with SWAT training and range fire arms instructor I say your completely wrong you should stick to corrections. You don't train to double tap you train to stop the threat be it one shot or 50. How many shootings have you been in? My last shooting the suspect took 5 shots all center mass before he dropped his gun. You got a problem with that is it excessive?
When's the last time you had training in active shooter or building entries? We teach single entry it sucks but sometimes its all you got. You should have stopped at I hate to see arm chair quarterback because the rest of that post was just wrong

 

[SavageMan]

Since you asked when the last time I trained on active shooter was Ballen0351 I'll tell you. The last active shooter coarse I took as a Deputy was in 2007. Yes alot has changed since then and does from year to year and from coarse to coarse. I do however train every month as a DCT member along side the SORT team on entry tactics, hostage extraction, and riot control. No Sir I have never had to pull the triger. For that I am thankful. There were a few incidents where I did end up in some stand off situations only to be lucky enough that no shots were fired. Being from West Virginia it is not uncommon for any call to turn into a gun call, it seems everyone owns one here. Before you start ripping on corrections know this. COs take the same chances on road officers do everyday with alot less tools to work with. Everyone we deal with is a BAD GUY. And 90% of the time are armed when we are not. I won't go over the horror stories because I feel it is poor form to do so. No Officer regaurdless of their station should ever have to do so for the respect of another. Just know I work at one of the most violent USPs in the nation, USP Hazleton. Look it up it will speak for itself. As for being so defensive, well given the past history you've given I can't blame you for that. But as a SWAT officer and fire arms instrutor who does train in these situations you also know you are alot more skilled with your fire arms than the average officer, or at least should be. I simply stated a sad fact that comes with our line of work. There are officers who have not had the training and do go about buisness in a John Wayne manner. I am just as loyal to the brotherhood as any officer but I've also been around long enough to know that in every family there are idiots and a##holes. In the BOP we do practice threat assement and the use of force scale. And yes we do train in the double tap method. No disrespect was intentioned Sir. I only hope as a lowly Correctional Officer that is an acceptable response for someone of your caliber.