Am I using a dolyo chagi chamber for a yeop chagi here? (VIDEO)=

[Acronym]

I find this to be true. However, I have found that it’s often due to chambering a side kick like a round kick and having the foot take a non-linear path to the target.


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It can only take one path if you do it with the lead leg, and those are the types of skipping side kicks I was referring to. Not everybody throws them hard either. I would say a majority do not but it's been a while and I did not take notes

 

[Acronym]

However, I have found that it’s often due to chambering a side kick like a round kick and having the foot take a non-linear path to the target.


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Why would the direction of the travel path affect power if the momentum and weight distribution is the same on impact?

 

[Jaeimseu]

It can only take one path if you do it with the lead leg, and those are the types of skipping side kicks I was referring to. Not everybody throws them hard either. I would say a majority do not but it's been a while and I did not take notes

The path changes depending on the location of the foot relative to the target. If the striking surface of the foot is facing the target in the chambered position, it can move directly through the target. If the striking surface is moving across the target, much of the power is focused in the wrong direction.


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[Acronym]

The path changes depending on the location of the foot relative to the target. If the striking surface of the foot is facing the target in the chambered position, it can move directly through the target. If the striking surface is moving across the target, much of the power is focused in the wrong direction.


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But you can do an inital chamber as a roundhouse and end up with a classical side kick chamber during point of impact. And if that inital chamber of a roundhouse had more momentum, It would logically lead to more power than a consistent side kick chamber with less momentum.

 

[Acronym]

That last post was in reference to the rear leg btw.

 

[Acronym]

Back the to the lead leg - the reason it's harder to generate force with lead leg side kicks compared to a rear leg roundhouse kicks, is because you have to muscle it to some extent. Whereas a roundhouse kick gets most of its power from your hip and the torque.

So you need strong legs. You don't need strong legs for a roundhouse kick off the rear leg, believe it or not. The torque and pivot takes care of all of it.

 

[Jaeimseu]

But you can do an inital chamber as a roundhouse and end up with a classical side kick chamber during point of impact. And if that inital chamber of a roundhouse had more momentum, It would logically lead to more power than a consistent side kick chamber with less momentum.

In theory, this is possible, but my experience tells me that few people do this with consistency. Most of the time you can hear the sliding sound of the foot scraping across the mitt or target.

Having said that, how much power is necessary depends on the context. If the power generated is sufficient for the job at hand, then it could be argued that the chamber position isn’t that important. However, I believe chambering round kick style isn’t as reliable for most people.


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[Acronym]

In theory, this is possible, but my experience tells me that few people do this with consistency. Most of the time you can hear the sliding sound of the foot scraping across the mitt or target.


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The main reason people fail rear leg side kicks on mitts is not the chamber or point of impact, in my experience. It's more their torso mechanics and losing momentum in the pivot.

In the rear leg side kick you are pivoting to lean backwards (a bit) and combining these concepts often make you lose the momentum and it ends up just a leg kick.

In the roundhouse kick off the rear leg, you are creating momentum to lean to the side and it's easier to maintain because the force is still semi-forward, hence less risk of losing the momentum.

Rear leg side kicks can also be a ***** if you haven't thrown them off the proper distance, wheras Roundhouse kicks are less sensitive to how close you are standing because your foot is not pushing through, it's slamming in.

 

[Acronym]

When I do this skipping movement, I don't know exactly how much to lean for maximum power. It simply comes from experience and intuition, a fraction of a section before extention.

People who struggle have more problems to deal with so simply adressing their leans won't solve much.

 

[Acronym]

And to be honest, I don't want to waste time on Rear leg side kicks because they are almost never used in sparring. They take too to long to reach the target.

 

[Jaeimseu]

And to be honest, I don't want to waste time on Rear leg side kicks because they are almost never used in sparring. They take too to long to reach the target.

We can certainly agree on that. Most rear leg side kicks fail because they’re easy to spot and evade.


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[Acronym]

We can certainly agree on that. Most rear leg side kicks fail because they’re easy to spot and evade.


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Yet basics in the dojang usually drill rear leg side kicks, not the lead one. It's good for a personal challenge to be great at them but not much else.

 

[Jaeimseu]

Yet basics in the dojang usually drill rear leg side kicks, not the lead one. It's good for a personal challenge to be great at them but not much else.

I think this may differ from dojang to dojang. We don’t drill them all that often at my school.


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[Acronym]

I think this may differ from dojang to dojang. We don’t drill them all that often at my school.


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Side kicks in patterns are rear leg....

 

[Jaeimseu]

Side kicks in patterns are rear leg....

True, but patterns/forms/poomsae isn’t the basis of our program. It’s a part, certainly, but we don’t spend the majority of training time on it.


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[Acronym]

True, but patterns/forms/poomsae isn’t the basis of our program. It’s a part, certainly, but we don’t spend the majority of training time on it.


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So what is the basis - sparring?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When one learns a new technique it's taught pronounced and exaggerated. This is to ingrain the principles of the motions. Then when applied in fighting there is no longer (neccesarily) full range of motion.

That's why I mean that many techniques you see in free sparring might have gotten low scoring in kata/forms judging because they weren't obvious enough from point A to B. But that's precisely the point in sparring to avoid telegraphing.

In self defense, you might revert back to full range of motion for extra power because your attacker doesn't spar you and has no idea what is coming and might never heard of a "roundhouse kick". or "side kick". So I can both dust him off and get good marks from a kata ref.

I was mostly talking about the discussion of turning vs. side kicks. My training includes a very small number of kicks, and a lot of what the "kickers" on here talk about is very over my head.

 

[dvcochran]

But you can do an inital chamber as a roundhouse and end up with a classical side kick chamber during point of impact. And if that inital chamber of a roundhouse had more momentum, It would logically lead to more power than a consistent side kick chamber with less momentum.

Then it would not be a side kick. The two kicks use different muscle groups and body posture/rotation.

 

[dvcochran]

In theory, this is possible, but my experience tells me that few people do this with consistency. Most of the time you can hear the sliding sound of the foot scraping across the mitt or target.

Having said that, how much power is necessary depends on the context. If the power generated is sufficient for the job at hand, then it could be argued that the chamber position isn’t that important. However, I believe chambering round kick style isn’t as reliable for most people.


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And I would add, how many times do you really get to do a 'perfect' rear leg roundhouse kick when sparring? More often than not there is some degree of off balance. Something a person has to train to learn how to adjust for.

 

[dvcochran]

We can certainly agree on that. Most rear leg side kicks fail because they’re easy to spot and evade.


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My personal favorite and most efficient use of a rear leg side kick is when I catch an opponent taking cross step when my shoulders are open to them. Easy pickings for a near side head shot.
We also work a variant where you fake a spin and follow through with the rear leg if they slide back instead of step back. You have a lot of momentum working in your favor.