Am I stupid or what

[terryl965]

My school has a great reputation and hopefully so do I, but over the last few years these fly by night clubs pop up and within a few months they have 100-150 students paying $125.00 a month for three days a week, they use all these badges and patches and Waterdown the program so no-one sweats and they are growing. In the mean time I struggle to sign Io 3-5 students a month, that does not care if they sweat and like the hard training we do. My question is why are these school coming over the top of older established schools.

 

[stoneheart]

Terry, they are successful because they do a good job of catering to the niche market they have selected. A local TSD school in my city always is packed to the gills with children students. Why? They pick up after school and provide a small snack before some karate activities. Parents find this to be an inexpensive way of keeping their little ones busy and safe until they can get off work.

Is it good martial arts? To many, probably not. Good business? You betcha.

Now what about this school you mention in particular. It sounds like you don't necessarily respect the training they offer. What do they have that makes people want to sign up? It can't be just the patches. Is it a fun place to train? Are the facilities well furnished and maintained? Do they have a financially successful children's program? If so, why?

I'm increasingly of the opinion that you CANNOT have your cake and eat it too. (Cue the retorts headed my way, I'm sure). I do not believe you can have one of those super schools with hundreds of students without watering down the instruction. If you are determined to offer good instruction and have high standards, I think you can have a profitable studio, but IMO it will never be the mint certain chain schools are.

 

[MBuzzy]

Terry,

Is there any difference in the marketing that these schools are doing? Is it possible that they are making some fantastic claims?

You have a great website, so that isn't it. It seems to me that they must be either doing more marketing or using some marketing tactic that draws people to them with the lure of easy ranks, or superhero talents, or who knows what!

 

[morph4me]

Terry, seems to me that it's a matter of quality and substance vs. flash and bling. Maybe you should see about setting up a tournament between your school and there's get to meet each other and let their students see what can be accomplished by quality training.

 

[terryl965]

Terry, they are successful because they do a good job of catering to the niche market they have selected. A local TSD school in my city always is packed to the gills with children students. Why? They pick up after school and provide a small snack before some karate activities. Parents find this to be an inexpensive way of keeping their little ones busy and safe until they can get off work.

Is it good martial arts? To many, probably not. Good business? You betcha.

Now what about this school you mention in particular. It sounds like you don't necessarily respect the training they offer. What do they have that makes people want to sign up? It can't be just the patches. Is it a fun place to train? Are the facilities well furnished and maintained? Do they have a financially successful children's program? If so, why?

I'm increasingly of the opinion that you CANNOT have your cake and eat it too. (Cue the retorts headed my way, I'm sure). I do not believe you can have one of those super schools with hundreds of students without watering down the instruction. If you are determined to offer good instruction and have high standards, I think you can have a profitable studio, but IMO it will never be the mint certain chain schools are.

Are they succesful yes in the regards to making money they only do in house tournaments and everybody wins and nobody loses. They offer the aftercare program and play duck duck goose goose and all types of game, there TKD program is so waterdown that they have to have a boat to get across the floor

. Just kidding. Nobody ever breaks a sweat and they never teach any self defense at all. I agree you cannot have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks
Stoneheart

 

[grydth]

Well, let's see.... you are selling a legitimate training regimen. Given some of the grotesque crimes described on other threads, this would be a useful and practical skill set to have. So... you aren't stupid.

Your competition isn't stupid, either. They have figured our how to effectively market nothing for hundreds of contract deal.

But - is the con artist smarter than you? Don't bet on it! Slicker does not equal smarter, but rather a depraved willingness to say and do anything to gain more money. Would you trade your 75 dedicated students for his hollow legions of status seeking peacocks?

The true stupids...The sheeple who sign up at these joints, foolishly believing a black belt paid for - but not sweated or bled for - will be worth anything when their lives are at stake.

 

[terryl965]

Terry,

Is there any difference in the marketing that these schools are doing? Is it possible that they are making some fantastic claims?

You have a great website, so that isn't it. It seems to me that they must be either doing more marketing or using some marketing tactic that draws people to them with the lure of easy ranks, or superhero talents, or who knows what!

Yes the offer a BB program in 18 months and gaurentees this in writing people just do not understand, 3 times a week 12 classes a month for 18 so 226 classes they recieve what I cannot give them.

 

[terryl965]

Terry, seems to me that it's a matter of quality and substance vs. flash and bling. Maybe you should see about setting up a tournament between your school and there's get to meet each other and let their students see what can be accomplished by quality training.

They only do inter school between themself and no outsiders at all.

 

[terryl965]

Well, let's see.... you are selling a legitimate training regimen. Given some of the grotesque crimes described on other threads, this would be a useful and practical skill set to have. So... you aren't stupid.

Your competition isn't stupid, either. They have figured our how to effectively market nothing for hundreds of contract deal.

But - is the con artist smarter than you? Don't bet on it! Slicker does not equal smarter, but rather a depraved willingness to say and do anything to gain more money. Would you trade your 75 dedicated students for his hollow legions of status seeking peacocks?

The true stupids...The sheeple who sign up at these joints, foolishly believing a black belt paid for - but not sweated or bled for - will be worth anything when their lives are at stake.

No I would never sell out my students they deserve more from me and what I promised them when signing up with me to sweat and earn there rank.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Terry, I'm sure you run a program I would admire and respect.

Our school has about 130 students paying either $125/week for lessons or $500/week for after school program. I feel we do a good job of balancing on the line between an authentic school and an overly commercial dojo.

Not to sound like I know what I'm doing or anything, but PM me and I'd be happy to chat about some specifics.

Take it from me. It is possible to make a good living and be a full time karate teacher without selling out our beloved arts.

 

[morph4me]

They only do inter school between themself and no outsiders at all.

Why am I not suprised!

 

[Flying Crane]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that you CANNOT have your cake and eat it too. (Cue the retorts headed my way, I'm sure). I do not believe you can have one of those super schools with hundreds of students without watering down the instruction. If you are determined to offer good instruction and have high standards, I think you can have a profitable studio, but IMO it will never be the mint certain chain schools are.

Full agreement.

Quality martial arts training means: hard work, lots of time, dedication, focus, sweat, pain, even blood and tears. Without this, the training is probably sub-par.

The kind of school you describe sounds more like "karate as daycare", or a social group for adults. It's more like a costume party where even the adults get to play "dress-up", those nifty karate gis and a new colored belt every few weeks. In my opinion, this is not quality martial arts.

Stick to what you are doing. Don't get suckered into compromising your standards for a buck. You'll hate yourself in the end.

Keep you classes smaller, and you know that you are giving better instruction and your students are higher quality.

 

[terryl965]

Why am I not suprised!

Keep those blinders on, that way people believe they are that good.

 

[terryl965]

Full agreement.

Quality martial arts training means: hard work, lots of time, dedication, focus, sweat, pain, even blood and tears. Without this, the training is probably sub-par.

The kind of school you describe sounds more like "karate as daycare", or a social group for adults. In my opinion, this is not quality martial arts.

Stick to what you are doing. Don't get suckered into compromising your standards for a buck. You'll hate yourself in the end.

Keep you classes smaller, and you know that you are giving better instruction and your students are higher quality.

Thanks Flying crane

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Terry I have been to your school and saw how hard your students work. That is truly impressive!!!

For myself I would rather have a handful of practitioner's training under me than a bunch of students that are there for any other reason than learning effective personal protection skills. I am a tough instructor to learn under because I demand that practitioners really train not only effectively but also with heart. If someone is not willing to do that then I would rather they go elsewhere. Bottom line you need to find a way to make your Training Hall exactly the way you want it and if that means a slight tweak here or there then it is just finding what needs to be tweaked. However, knowing you and your desires I have no doubt that your school will always be a hard working real world Dojang.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Your competition sounds great! They have everything: badges, patches, games, dressing up like martial artists, guaranteed black belts, an aftercare program, safety, no damaged egos. Am I missing something? Oh yeah, do they have anytime at all to teach martial arts?

It looks like they have created a very nice environment for teens and preteens to hang out together after school that mum and dad would approve of. Good marketing, probably not so good martial arts.

Terry, seems to me that it's a matter of quality and substance vs. flash and bling. Maybe you should see about setting up a tournament between your school and there's get to meet each other and let their students see what can be accomplished by quality training.

I have to agree with this. It would be nice for you to be able to showcase the skills your students have acquired. But as your competitors are more interested in nobody losing than actually learning it is very unlikely, isn't it?

 

[Blindside]

Our school has about 130 students paying either $125/week for lessons or $500/week for after school program. I feel we do a good job of balancing on the line between an authentic school and an overly commercial dojo.

Do you mean $125/week or per MONTH?

Big difference.

 

[MBuzzy]

Stick to what you are doing. Don't get suckered into compromising your standards for a buck. You'll hate yourself in the end.

Keep you classes smaller, and you know that you are giving better instruction and your students are higher quality.

I agree with Flying Crane....If you stick to what you are doing, even if you only sign 3-5 students per month, you have your dignity and you keep your conscience clean. Personally I'd be ashamed if I had earned my own rank, then went on to run a belt factory producing people who didn't actually earn a rank.

I would be very interested to see their retention rates. How many of their students do they manage to keep around? How many stay around AFTER they have made Cho Dan?

 

[terryl965]

Terry I have been to your school and saw how hard your students work. That is truly impressive!!!

For myself I would rather have a handful of practitioner's training under me than a bunch of students that are there for any other reason than learning effective personal protection skills. I am a tough instructor to learn under because I demand that practitioners really train not only effectively but also with heart. If someone is not willing to do that then I would rather they go elsewhere. Bottom line you need to find a way to make your Training Hall exactly the way you want it and if that means a slight tweak here or there then it is just finding what needs to be tweaked. However, knowing you and your desires I have no doubt that your school will always be a hard working real world Dojang.

Thank you for those heart warming words

 

[MJS]

My school has a great reputation and hopefully so do I, but over the last few years these fly by night clubs pop up and within a few months they have 100-150 students paying $125.00 a month for three days a week, they use all these badges and patches and Waterdown the program so no-one sweats and they are growing. In the mean time I struggle to sign Io 3-5 students a month, that does not care if they sweat and like the hard training we do. My question is why are these school coming over the top of older established schools.

Simple: The majority of the people that you're describing are looking for one thing...a belt. Now, they can get one at your school, but if its what you describe, they're going to have to work and bust their butt to get it.

Now, they can go down the road and also get a belt, but chances are, they'll have to put in a fraction of the work. They're the belt factory, you're not.

In this case, its the quantity, not the quality of the students.

Just my .02.

Mike