Aikido.. The reality?

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Wing Woo Gar

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That's a tough one. But as I mentioned before, you CAN prove negatives. In philosophy, people prove the lack of things all the time. But the way to do it is to approach it from the positive. What I mean is, you provide a proof that its existence, whatever "it" might be, is paradoxical or internally inconsistent. Said another way, you just provide evidence (a positive) that something can't exist.

So, for example, when it comes to a deity, proving there is no divine source for the universe is a tough one. I mean, the trump card is you can always say, "Yeah but" to anything. Big bang? Yeah, but what if the deity caused the Big Bang? Evolution? Yeah, but what if the diety created evolution?

But you can start to look at how some folks define their deity and see internally incompatible things. Theistic God, for example, is supposed to be omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent. As St. Thomas Aquinas said, "God is that than which no greater can be conceived."

So, then, you start to dig into the problem of evil. That's the readers digest version.
St. Thomas Aquinas statement is defining the deity as the God of gaps. As Scientific discovery grows, the gaps in human knowledge as we currently define it, consistently shrink. This means that that which we thought of as the deitys realm (things greater than our conception at any given time) is consistently shrinking along with our ignorance of the universe around us.
 

Martial D

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You mean like that every art does what Chinese martial arts does but better? I assume that You, of course, must realize that there are quite a large number of Chinese martial arts out there. You must also be able to agree you havent experienced them all. Thus, you must be engaging in the healthy mindset that you mentioned above.
This is a non sequitur.
 

Martial D

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Exactly. You get it. Belief before evidence. For a moment I thought I was the only one to see this. The belief that there was life and water on Mars existed long before we landed a craft on Mars. Belief before evidence.
Seriously? Lol

This is exactly backwards to how rational thought works.
 

Martial D

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Even science doesn't follow evidence before belief.
Either you are using your own special definition of belief, or you don't know what science is or how it works.

be繚lief
/blf/


noun
  1. 1.
    an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
    "his belief in the value of hard work"
  2. 2.
    trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
    "I've still got belief in myself
This is the definition I am using. Science doesn't deal in beliefs at all. Science simply accepts the preponderance of evidence and postulates theories that fit the evidence.
 

Oily Dragon

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Wait. If we can't have a religious discussion, how can we talk about traditional martial arts? Nevermind, I'm actually cool with that. :D
How much do you know about "Grandpa Guan"?

1643330441660.png
 
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JowGaWolf

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Seriously? Lol

This is exactly backwards to how rational thought works.
Backwards according to who? Everything I've stated follows the following definitions.

Definition of rational:
1. based on facts or reason and not on emotions or feelings.
2. having the ability to reason or think about things clearly.

Facts or reason: This means Rational can be facts or it can be reason. Facts and reasons are 2 different things. They do not mean the same. Below shows the Webster definition of both. Here you can see that reason does not have to meet the standard of fact. It can simply be a statement of why something is the way it is. Why someone does, thinks, or says something, or why someone behaves a certain way. As shown here. Reason is also rational even if it does not meat the qualification of a fact.

Definition of fact -
1. something that truly exists or happens : something that has actual existence
2. A true piece of information

Definition of reason:
1. a statement or fact that explains why something is the way it is, why someone does, thinks, or says something, or why someone behaves a certain way.
2. the power of the mind to think and understand in a logical way

Reason:
Here we see that reason can be a statement or a fact. A statement and a fact are not the same thing. A statement is "a single declaration or remark."

Definition of logic
1. a particular way of thinking about something

Definition of Thought
1. an idea, plan, opinion, picture, etc., that is formed in your mind : something that you think of
2. the act or process of thinking
3. the act of carefully thinking about the details of something
 

Oily Dragon

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Tonight, someone I love dearly is doing reiki, to heal wounds.

I don't have the heart to criticize why she's choosing to do this, but even better, my mind already knew not to.

Why is that? Ai ki.

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JowGaWolf

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Either you are using your own special definition of belief, or you don't know what science is or how it works.

be繚lief
/blf/


noun
  1. 1.
    an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
    "his belief in the value of hard work"
  2. 2.
    trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
    "I've still got belief in myself
This is the definition I am using. Science doesn't deal in beliefs at all. Science simply accepts the preponderance of evidence and postulates theories that fit the evidence.
1. an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
There are 2 parts to this.
1. A statement that is true
2. That something exists.

When scientist use the scientific method. The Hypothesis can be a statement that something exists or it can be something that they believe is true.

Definition of Hypothesis
1. a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation."

Those who believe are the same ones who further investigate. Does who do not believe are often the ones who discard. For example. Aikido has awesome fighting techniques. There are some who will believe this and as a result, they will further investigate it by learning Aikido. Example: When I saw an Aikido technique I believed that there was something legit about it. So I tried it (investigated it.) and came back to the thread to speak of my experience (investigation) of trying the technique. On the other other hand. There are some who did not investigate. They simply watched the video and made comments based on their beliefs.

There are those who don't believe that Aikido has awesome fighting techniques. this and they will discard it. They will not not participate in it. They will not investigate it. They will form a belief.


Definition of Hypothesis
2. an idea or theory that is not proven but that leads to further study or discussion

An idea or theory that is not proven, but that leads to further study or discussion.

Before man could fly there was no proof or evidence that he could. There was only a statement, a beliefe is that a way exists.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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This is a non sequitur.
Ok. Since that's exactly what I said I guess we agree. When I named those styles it was in the context of those styles providing the best solutions. There is literally nothing Chinese martial arts does that isn't done better in one of those named styles. If there was, people would be using it competitively.
Forgive me, my lack of formal education leads me to err in many regards. Your statement above was the cause of my comment. You say that there is literally nothing that chinese martial arts does that isnt done better in several named styles. First, while I assume you are a experienced martial artist, you have probably not seen, nor experienced all of the different Chinese martial arts. You then said that if there was , people would be using it competitively. My question to you is, what led you to this assertion? Belief Or facts? Since you cant possibly have seen or experienced every chinese martial art, how could you credibly say that every named art in the comment does what Chinese arts do, but better?
 
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JowGaWolf

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tonight, someone I love dearly is doing reiki,
My wife does it. I don't think it's something that everyone can do. I think one must have a gift for it. She surprised a lot of people including my Sifu who was just starting it. He became scared because it got too real. It can get really uncomfortable when someone can see the "real you" Flaws and all.

The guy that fixed my knees told me that he only approached me, because he could feel my pain. He said his ability to feel where my pain was made it easier for him to locate the problem and fix it. No surgery needed. He fix 20+ years of aching knees in15 minutes after a Tai Chi class. I didn't even need rehab. Two other people from the school witness this.

This wouldn't be the strangest thing I've experienced. I figure with all of the strange stuff that's in the deepest part of the ocean. Why not?
 
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JowGaWolf

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Science simply accepts the preponderance of evidence and postulates theories that fit the evidence.
Which is ironic since science has been wrong about their evidence many times before. Things that they accepted as fact proven incorrect.

This is the definition of belief is it not. To accept a statement to be true.
 

Martial D

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Forgive me, my lack of formal education leads me to err in many regards. Your statement above was the cause of my comment. You say that there is literally nothing that chinese martial arts does that isnt done better in several named styles. First, while I assume you are a experienced martial artist, you have probably not seen, nor experienced all of the different Chinese martial arts. You then said that if there was , people would be using it competitively. My question to you is, what led you to this assertion? Belief Or facts? Since you cant possibly have seen or experienced every chinese martial art, how could you credibly say that every named art in the comment does what Chinese arts do, but better?
The world is bigger than any individual. I don't need to personally train in every Chinese martial art to know those systems fail when used in a competitive sense. The nature of competition is such that no advantage that is available will be overlooked, and as such if it was there it would be used with success by at least a portion of the vast competitive martial arts community. But instead, you can see what is done, what is used, and what does work. Tested rigorously day in and out by a vast demographic of people that collectively have experienced every martial art under the sun.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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I've got no idea what y'all are talking about at this point-from skimming, it seems to be god, philosophy, and/or science. Just want to say I'm impressed you're all still going strong 118 pages in, on a thread initially about aikido practitioners having difficulty in live situations.
 

Martial D

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Which is ironic since science has been wrong about their evidence many times before. Things that they accepted as fact proven incorrect.

This is the definition of belief is it not. To accept a statement to be true.
LOL

You really have no idea what science is or how it works. The fact that things must be falsifiable is what makes it science in the first place.

It's clear I am wasting my time, and there is no rational conversation to be had with you.
 
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