Aikido in the MMA ring?

[Hanzou]

it's just different. They can say they are Aikido and that's fine to me of you change the philosophy of the style away from the original then you changed the style. Its not "real" or not "real" it's just different

Well even Ueshiba wasn't doing original Aikido towards the end. He was doing some bizarre ki-stuff where he was throwing people without touching them. Of course the reality was that his students were throwing themselves without him touching them, but I digress.

Never once said anything like that. I said the Founders philosophy was different then other styles so it attracts a different type of person (in general again every rule has exceptions) I've trained at different Aikido Dojos and been to larger seminars and they type of person is just different then what I've seen and met in Goju or BJJ or MMA gyms. Even at my Judo dojo there is an Aikido class at the same,time on the same mats they were just different. Not better or worse just different

You didn't say it, but that's what you're implying.

lol go read 65% of the posts you make all over MT

I don't need to read my own posts, I wrote them after all.

Perhaps if you could provide some examples?

 

[ballen0351]

Their intent dosent really matter. We train to the point that the other guy is stopped.
.

intent does matter no matter how "live" you train it's not real you know your partner isn't going to harm,you on purpose. There is a safety net. I roll in class I get board i don't get any excitment because it's just not real.

 

[Hanzou]

and? They don't hold seminars in an MMA gym where the teacher demos techniques?

Of course. However, the demonstrations are never far off from their actual application.

Example, here's a Mendes Bros. Bjj seminar;

Pretty standard stuff.

The little full contact Aikido I've seen looks nothing like that Seagal demo.

 

[ballen0351]

You didn't say it, but that's what you're implying.

i wasn't implying anything. Every style has it's own philosophy. That's why we tell everyone that comes here try as many styles or schools as you can see what fits. Because are all different

 

[ballen0351]

Of course. However, the demonstrations are never far off from their actual application.

Example, here's a Mendes Bros. Bjj seminar;

Pretty standard stuff.

The little full contact Aikido I've seen looks nothing like that Seagal demo.

and? Where you at the entire Segal class that day or once again are you taking stuff from,YouTube with no context

 

[Spinedoc]

I would say that the cage is closer to real life than this;



I have yet to see that happen anywhere except in demos.

I would suggest that you don't really have any understanding of what you are watching. During randori, this is a common move that actually works quite well when you have people coming to try and grab you. We practice this frequently. Until you actually, I don't know….go to an Aikido class and experience this, your criticism is without merit.

 

[Hanzou]

I would suggest that you don't really have any understanding of what you are watching. During randori, this is a common move that actually works quite well when you have people coming to try and grab you. We practice this frequently. Until you actually, I don't know….go to an Aikido class and experience this, your criticism is without merit.

Well FYI, I have participated in a few Aikido classes. That brief experience doesn't change my observations; Aikidoka don't perform like that outside of demonstrations.

In fact, if you look at competitive Aikido, it looks quite a bit different;

 

[Spinedoc]

Well FYI, I have participated in a few Aikido classes. That brief experience doesn't change my observations; Aikidoka don't perform like that outside of demonstrations.

In fact, if you look at competitive Aikido, it looks quite a bit different;

Of course, and, YET AGAIN… we don't practice with the thought of EVER competing. The techniques Seagal Sensei was demonstrating above work quite well when you have someone running at you in a bar, on the street, etc. Competition where everyone is facing off and ready and prepared for someone to use a technique is not the same. Aikido never uses or relies on strength, if you have someone who knows what you are trying to do and resists you…then you do something else. I'd kick him in the nuts, headbutt him, apply chin na, punch him in the throat, or try to break his knee. I wouldn't even try Aikido in that situation. BUT, when you have someone attacking you, who is not prepared for your response (doesn't know what technique you will use), Aikido is perfect. Aikido, as I have said numerous times, does not work unless you have a committed attack. Someone who is trying to fight you, but doesn't want to commit (IE; jabs, or trying to grab at you without leaning in)….a true Aikidoka would simply walk away from that. Aikido hinges around your ability to unbalance someone and control their center….the only way to do this is to have them commit to an attack, if they don't, you'll have to do something else, but it won't be Aikido.

Again, you have your opinions….whatever. I could care less. My Aikido works just fine for me. What's ironic is, the BJJ guys I train with, are always asking me to show them different wrist locks, etc. from Aikido. Interesting that you have such a negative opinion. I won't waste my time responding to your posts anymore.

FTR, Shodokan is not considered mainstream Aikido. This was Tomiki's brainchild, it is not the Aikido of O'Sensei, and is not recognized by Hombu Dojo.

 

[Hanzou]

Of course, and, YET AGAIN… we don't practice with the thought of EVER competing. The techniques Seagal Sensei was demonstrating above work quite well when you have someone running at you in a bar, on the street, etc. Competition where everyone is facing off and ready and prepared for someone to use a technique is not the same. Aikido never uses or relies on strength, if you have someone who knows what you are trying to do and resists you…then you do something else. I'd kick him in the nuts, headbutt him, apply chin na, punch him in the throat, or try to break his knee. I wouldn't even try Aikido in that situation. BUT, when you have someone attacking you, who is not prepared for your response (doesn't know what technique you will use), Aikido is perfect. Aikido, as I have said numerous times, does not work unless you have a committed attack. Someone who is trying to fight you, but doesn't want to commit (IE; jabs, or trying to grab at you without leaning in)….a true Aikidoka would simply walk away from that. Aikido hinges around your ability to unbalance someone and control their center….the only way to do this is to have them commit to an attack, if they don't, you'll have to do something else, but it won't be Aikido.

Did you watch the Shodokan vid? There were several instances of someone charging someone else. Not a single one did what you say in that Seagal clip.

Again, you have your opinions….whatever. I could care less. My Aikido works just fine for me. What's ironic is, the BJJ guys I train with, are always asking me to show them different wrist locks, etc. from Aikido.

Of course they're asking you about wrist locks. Wrist locks are legal in Bjj competition, and are great submissions when you have someone in an inferior position. :shrug:

Interesting that you have such a negative opinion.

LoL! What negative opinion? I simply said that I've never seen what Seagal is doing above outside of demonstrations.

FTR, Shodokan is not considered mainstream Aikido. This was Tomiki's brainchild, it is not the Aikido of O'Sensei, and is not recognized by Hombu Dojo.

I'm well aware that the Aikikai branch of Aikido is the most dominant. My point was that Aikikai isn't the only branch of Aikido out there.

Here's one thing you won't see in the Shodokan branch of Aikido;

That's one of the top instructors at the Aikikai performing no-touch Aikido. What's more interesting is that there's videos of Ueshiba doing the same thing.

Do you feel that Ueshiba and Watanabe can actually throw or manipulate people without touching them?

 

[Steve]

Well a good question to ask is why wouldn't MMA improve her Aikido?

If we are to believe that Aikido is a martial art that can be used in a fight, why couldn't it be useful for MMA purposes? MMA bouts are nothing more than sanctioned fights after all.

kind of, but I think pressure testing woul

Well FYI, I have participated in a few Aikido classes. That brief experience doesn't change my observations; Aikidoka don't perform like that outside of demonstrations.

In fact, if you look at competitive Aikido, it looks quite a bit different;

shodokan aikido looks pretty cool, though. That throw at :26 was badass.

 

[Hanzou]

shodokan aikido looks pretty cool, though. That throw at :26 was badass.

I think Shodokan Aikido is very cool. I'd like to see it spread a bit wider and become more popular.

 

[drop bear]

Of course, and, YET AGAIN… we don't practice with the thought of EVER competing. The techniques Seagal Sensei was demonstrating above work quite well when you have someone running at you in a bar, on the street, etc

Then why dosent it work in a competition? What do you think makes the difference there.

 

[ballen0351]

Then why dosent it work in a competition? What do you think makes the difference there.

who says it doesn't?

 

[drop bear]

who says it doesn't?

Everybody so far.

 

[drop bear]

intent does matter no matter how "live" you train it's not real you know your partner isn't going to harm,you on purpose. There is a safety net. I roll in class I get board i don't get any excitment because it's just not real.

That is two different issues if you get bored in training that is on you.

But proof that a method works can be done in training. Regardless whether someone wants to kill you or not. Because you can take a person to the point that they can't kill you even if they wanted to.

If I have someone in a submission hold it is not reliant on their intent.

 

[ballen0351]

Everybody so far.

How many that actually train Aikido and know what he was even doing in the demo?

 

[drop bear]

How many that actually train Aikido and know what he was even doing in the demo?

In a discussion of two people one of them. Which is why I asked the question.

It wasn't a demo. It was a competition.

 

[ballen0351]

That is two different issues if you get bored in training that is on you.

Its boring because its not real its a game its fake its practice

But proof that a method works can be done in training.

Of course it can to a point thats why we train

Regardless whether someone wants to kill you or not. Because you can take a person to the point that they can't kill you even if they wanted to.

Its alot easier to get them there if they have no intention to hurt you in the first place

If I have someone in a submission hold it is not reliant on their intent.

Sure Im talking about getting them to the submission in the first place. No matter how you slice it training isnt real

 

[ballen0351]

It wasn't a demo. It was a competition.

Umm you commented on Spinedocs post about Seagal's DEMONSTRATION

 

[drop bear]

Its boring because its not real its a game its fake its practice

Of course it can to a point thats why we train

Its alot easier to get them there if they have no intention to hurt you in the first place

Sure Im talking about getting them to the submission in the first place. No matter how you slice it training isnt real

The guys I train with are a lot harder to deal with than the guys I generally fight. Because intent only gets you so far. Wanting to kill a guy really is only an advantage if you are winning.

If you get nailed your intent goes out the window. Hopefully you have trained to fight on.