Aikido has no reason to prove itself!

drop bear

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I did see a guy one time try a head kick outside a bar after a lot of ranting about being a kick boxer... he got his *** whooped ! and this was by a non martial arts guy.
It all looks great in Tae Kwon Do the board breaking and high kicks which is the Korean tradition but flying kick are not needed. we do not need to kick horse riders off their horse these days.

Flying kicks are pretty common and pretty successful in street fights.

More common and successful than say low kicks to the knee.

We just have this preconceived idea that it isn't the case.
 

drop bear

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It's worth noting in that test, he was holding it to try to stop that from happening. He was holding tight. It probably takes less than that to make it release in most cases, because unless someone is raging in place (not much movement), it's really unlikely they are holding as tight as that. I've seen knives knocked out of grip in training enough to believe it's very possible. Maybe even a target of opportunity in some cases, but not something to depend upon.

No. That is an unfounded assumption.

And regardless the concept worked in testing anyway.
 
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drop bear

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A surprise sewing machine style knife attack is my worst nightmare. I've not seen much of anything short of wearing ring mail or something that would stop the first couple of stabs.

Counter striking. It is still low percentage but there is a chance you can overwhelm the guy before he gets you.
 

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No. That is an unfounded assumption.

And regardless the concept worked in testing anyway.
It did.

I'm curious why you think folks would be holding a knife as tightly as they possibly can if just being threatening (not actually attacking, so at that distance), or if moving in with it (not at the actual point of stabbing). Maybe I spend too much time around folks who are trained, but it's my experience that people don't tend to hold anything as tightly as they can unless they expect at that moment it may be pushed/pulled/knocked out of their hand. When using it, they tend to hold about as firmly as they feel is necessary. Holding REALLY tight makes it hard to do much.
 

Dirty Dog

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It did.

I'm curious why you think folks would be holding a knife as tightly as they possibly can if just being threatening (not actually attacking, so at that distance), or if moving in with it (not at the actual point of stabbing). Maybe I spend too much time around folks who are trained, but it's my experience that people don't tend to hold anything as tightly as they can unless they expect at that moment it may be pushed/pulled/knocked out of their hand. When using it, they tend to hold about as firmly as they feel is necessary. Holding REALLY tight makes it hard to do much.
Holding a blade super tight will make attacks more difficult and less effective. Especially a thrusting weapon. Point control with a super tight grip is pretty much non-existant.
 

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It did.

I'm curious why you think folks would be holding a knife as tightly as they possibly can if just being threatening (not actually attacking, so at that distance), or if moving in with it (not at the actual point of stabbing). Maybe I spend too much time around folks who are trained, but it's my experience that people don't tend to hold anything as tightly as they can unless they expect at that moment it may be pushed/pulled/knocked out of their hand. When using it, they tend to hold about as firmly as they feel is necessary. Holding REALLY tight makes it hard to do much.

I've never personally witnessed anyone being stabbed, but in all of the cases I've heard of, it was never a situation where someone was being robbed at knifepoint, being told "do x or I'll stab you," or otherwise even being able to see the knife in time to react to it. In every case, the stabber gets into the victim's personal space before taking out the knife and stabbing the person.

In my estimation, people threatening you with a knife before doing anything with it (thus, presenting an opportunity for you to kick the knife out or otherwise disarm the attacker) is probably more likely to happen outside of the US, where people have less access to guns.
 

drop bear

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It did.

I'm curious why you think folks would be holding a knife as tightly as they possibly can if just being threatening (not actually attacking, so at that distance), or if moving in with it (not at the actual point of stabbing). Maybe I spend too much time around folks who are trained, but it's my experience that people don't tend to hold anything as tightly as they can unless they expect at that moment it may be pushed/pulled/knocked out of their hand. When using it, they tend to hold about as firmly as they feel is necessary. Holding REALLY tight makes it hard to do much.

Because you have your super mad rage on? Or you don't want the knife to come out when you hit something with it?

I think loosey goosey grips are a mistake.

Regardless. It is not an assumption we can make based on what our mates might do in the dojo.
 

Dirty Dog

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Because you have your super mad rage on? Or you don't want the knife to come out when you hit something with it?

I think loosey goosey grips are a mistake.

Regardless. It is not an assumption we can make based on what our mates might do in the dojo.
Have you ever trained full on with knives (rubber/blunted/training vlades)? If you do, I think you'd find that a super tight grip is not desirable.
 

drop bear

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It did.

I'm curious why you think folks would be holding a knife as tightly as they possibly can if just being threatening (not actually attacking, so at that distance), or if moving in with it (not at the actual point of stabbing). Maybe I spend too much time around folks who are trained, but it's my experience that people don't tend to hold anything as tightly as they can unless they expect at that moment it may be pushed/pulled/knocked out of their hand. When using it, they tend to hold about as firmly as they feel is necessary. Holding REALLY tight makes it hard to do much.
I think if you are just going to hit the guy as hard as you can. You want a tight grip. You might loose versatility. But I don't think it is necessarily about versatility.

 

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most people who pull out a blade will attack quickly and do not give you any chance. They won織t say, "Hey are you ready" ?
 

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I've never personally witnessed anyone being stabbed, but in all of the cases I've heard of, it was never a situation where someone was being robbed at knifepoint, being told "do x or I'll stab you," or otherwise even being able to see the knife in time to react to it. In every case, the stabber gets into the victim's personal space before taking out the knife and stabbing the person.

In my estimation, people threatening you with a knife before doing anything with it (thus, presenting an opportunity for you to kick the knife out or otherwise disarm the attacker) is probably more likely to happen outside of the US, where people have less access to guns.
Agreed.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Because you have your super mad rage on? Or you don't want the knife to come out when you hit something with it?

I think loosey goosey grips are a mistake.

Regardless. It is not an assumption we can make based on what our mates might do in the dojo.
This isn't a binary thing. There's a huge range between "super tight" and "loosey goosey". My training is that grip tightens before impact, with both blunt and edged weapons, but never gets "tight as you can", because that causes other muscles to tighten. But that's about technique, and we're talking about what people are likely to do.

The rage thing, I agree on, but I don't think someone's likely to be at that distance with a knife in hand and blind raging. They could be, and I agree it's really likely they're holding tight in that situation. But absent that rage (which I included in my original comment on this), I don't think that super-tight grip he was using is likely. He was focused on trying to protect against a hard kick he knew was coming.
 

Gerry Seymour

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I think if you are just going to hit the guy as hard as you can. You want a tight grip. You might loose versatility. But I don't think it is necessarily about versatility.

Yeah, the grip tightens before impact. But probably not the situation at that distance.
 

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I've never personally witnessed anyone being stabbed, but in all of the cases I've heard of, it was never a situation where someone was being robbed at knifepoint, being told "do x or I'll stab you," or otherwise even being able to see the knife in time to react to it. In every case, the stabber gets into the victim's personal space before taking out the knife and stabbing the person.

In my estimation, people threatening you with a knife before doing anything with it (thus, presenting an opportunity for you to kick the knife out or otherwise disarm the attacker) is probably more likely to happen outside of the US, where people have less access to guns.
And yet, during the three occasions I've had a knife pulled on me, I had time to react. The first was exactly the scenario you describe; a mugging at knifepoint.
And I've seen plenty of people in the ER who also had time to react. And some who didn't. And some who reacted effectively. And some who reacted ineffectively. All in the US.
There are certainly no reliable statistics to quantify your chances.
So the bottom line is, if your opponent has a knife, you're going to get hurt. Except when you don't. And you'll see it coming. Except when you don't.
 

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And yet, during the three occasions I've had a knife pulled on me, I had time to react. The first was exactly the scenario you describe; a mugging at knifepoint.
And I've seen plenty of people in the ER who also had time to react. And some who didn't. And some who reacted effectively. And some who reacted ineffectively. All in the US.
There are certainly no reliable statistics to quantify your chances.
So the bottom line is, if your opponent has a knife, you're going to get hurt. Except when you don't. And you'll see it coming. Except when you don't.

Two key phrases that I used, that should be pointed out:

1. "in all of the cases I've heard of"
2. "in my estimation"

In other words, I never ruled out the possibility or probability of certain things happening.

I don't know what's been going on for the past few days, but it looks like people have been quick to try to look good at someone else's expense here lately.
 

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have you ever yourself been in a real situation against a knife?
I have, a few times. Talked my way out of a couple, and in the one situation where a guy pulled out a big kitchen knife, I bravely ran away. Wish I had thought of kicking it out of his hands, though. Would've been legendary.
And yet, during the three occasions I've had a knife pulled on me, I had time to react. The first was exactly the scenario you describe; a mugging at knifepoint.
And I've seen plenty of people in the ER who also had time to react. And some who didn't. And some who reacted effectively. And some who reacted ineffectively. All in the US.
There are certainly no reliable statistics to quantify your chances.
So the bottom line is, if your opponent has a knife, you're going to get hurt. Except when you don't. And you'll see it coming. Except when you don't.
Me too, interestingly enough.
 

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