Advantage Martial Arts Has Over Guns

[gyoja]

What secrets? They’re teaching basic stuff, that anyone with experience already knows, buttom of the barrel as far as even ITAR.

Key word: experience. A good chunk of their revenue comes from those without it. As far as guns and gun accessories are concerned, they have a big chunk of DOD market share due to this. Not to mention foreign investors.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Key word: experience. A good chunk of their revenue comes from those without it. As far as guns and gun accessories are concerned, they have a big chunk of DOD market share due to this. Not to mention foreign investors.

I’ve seen highly respected instructors (who I researched beforehand) lie about where they originally learned something from. They had real experience, but they pretended they just discovered something, when they were taught firstly by other people. And then there’s the trash talk.

I understand a desire to avoid guerrilla marketing, but…it doesn’t say much about character.

 

[gyoja]

I’ve seen highly respected instructors (who I researched beforehand) lie about where they originally learned something from. They had real experience, but they pretended they just discovered something, when they were taught firstly by other people. And then there’s the trash talk.

I understand a desire to avoid guerrilla marketing, but…it doesn’t say much about character.

I apologize for your experience. I haven’t trained with anyone like that. All of my experience was with instructors whose resume was backed up by a DD214.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

I apologize for your experience. I haven’t trained with anyone like that. All of my experience was with instructors whose resume was backed up by a DD214.

They didn’t lack experience. They just weren’t honest about the fact, that someone trained them, to do what they did.

 

[gyoja]

They didn’t lack experience. They just weren’t honest about the fact, that someone trained them, to do what they did.

I wasn’t implying that they lacked experience. I was apologizing that you had a bad experience.

 

[gyoja]

They didn’t lack experience. They just weren’t honest about the fact, that someone trained them, to do what they did.

Oops. I reread your post and realized that I missed your point. I guess Regiment was just really thorough on their training selection.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The complete opposite. In MMA you are good if you can beat everyone else up. You don't have to adhere to anyone's sense of image.

It is basically scientific method.

That is an astonishing imagination you have there. You are an old man past his prime just like me. NOBODY can beat everybody else. MMA isn’t any different than any other martial art pursuit. It’s become a status thing and image enhancer to say “I’m an MMA guy” or wear the gear in public that identifies a person as affiliated with MMA. Meaning they are a tough guy who does cage fights and must be respected or else. Which is just a load of ego crap, because a 75 year old woman with a taser can consistently tame that ego in 1 second flat. I can objectively prove that using scientific method. You don’t fight in the UFC, and I don’t shoot people in gunfights. You and I are both closer to the rest home than we are to the UFC or special forces. We don’t age like wine, but I bet that in 20 years I will still shoot better than you fight. We have more in common than you like to believe, evidently that includes head injuries and delusions of grandeur.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

That is an astonishing imagination you have there. You are an old man past his prime just like me. NOBODY can beat everybody else. MMA isn’t any different than any other martial art pursuit. It’s become a status thing and image enhancer to say “I’m an MMA guy” or wear the gear in public that identifies a person as affiliated with MMA. Meaning they are a tough guy who does cage fights and must be respected or else. Which is just a load of ego crap, because a 75 year old woman with a taser can consistently tame that ego in 1 second flat. I can objectively prove that using scientific method. You don’t fight in the UFC, and I don’t shoot people in gunfights. You and I are both closer to the rest home than we are to the UFC or special forces. We don’t age like wine, but I bet that in 20 years I will still shoot better than you fight. We have more in common than you like to believe, evidently that includes head injuries and delusions of grandeur.

Not to take away from your point…but which kind of taser are we talking here?

 

[drop bear]

I don’t know why you insist that people, who learn through nearly dieing, or watching their friends die—have nothing to offer. They grow through people coming back from combat operations, and sharing their experiences with the cadre.

Military units cross-train on a regular babasis.

Because it is filtered through stories. And stories are sometimes true, and sometimes not true.

Even if the guy is a legitimate bad ***. Doesn't mean they won't make stuff up.

Especially when the story is the most important part.

So for example Timor for a while there was just the worst most violent place. And the people had more experience than most people at the darkest sort of combat you could imagine. So theoretically they should have the best first hand knowledge of how combat works.

But they also believe magic plays a role.

 

[drop bear]

That is an astonishing imagination you have there. You are an old man past his prime just like me. NOBODY can beat everybody else. MMA isn’t any different than any other martial art pursuit. It’s become a status thing and image enhancer to say “I’m an MMA guy” or wear the gear in public that identifies a person as affiliated with MMA. Meaning they are a tough guy who does cage fights and must be respected or else. Which is just a load of ego crap, because a 75 year old woman with a taser can consistently tame that ego in 1 second flat. I can objectively prove that using scientific method. You don’t fight in the UFC, and I don’t shoot people in gunfights. You and I are both closer to the rest home than we are to the UFC or special forces. We don’t age like wine, but I bet that in 20 years I will still shoot better than you fight. We have more in common than you like to believe, evidently that includes head injuries and delusions of grandeur.

Which is why if you do MMA you need to be good to be successful at it. And if you use a tazer or a gun. You don't.

A 75 year old woman can be effective.

And the training reflects that.

The difference is I can tell if someone is good at MMA. And have to guess if someone is good with a tazer or a gun.(unless they are a competitive shooter. And there is some sort of objective measurement)

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Because it is filtered through stories. And stories are sometimes true, and sometimes not true.

Even if the guy is a legitimate bad ***. Doesn't mean they won't make stuff up.

Especially when the story is the most important part.

So for example Timor for a while there was just the worst most violent place. And the people had more experience than most people at the darkest sort of combat you could imagine. So theoretically they should have the best first hand knowledge of how combat works.

But they also believe magic plays a role.

This is complete and utter ********. Let’s say an entire team lies about how their mission went, and it’s different from the experiences of the previous team. Depending on the unit, resources dedicated, they’ll have other intel and recon guys verify stuff before another mission. Lets hypothetically assume they lie too.

Well, guess what happens?

The next team is sent in, prepares based on that bad info, and they all get screwed up. After the debrief with the survivors, everyone knows the previous teams lied.

 

[drop bear]

This is complete and utter ********. Let’s say an entire team lies about how their mission went, and it’s different from the experiences of the previous team. Depending on the unit, resources dedicated, they’ll have other intel and recon guys verify stuff before another mission. Lets hypothetically assume they lie too.

Well, guess what happens?

The next team is sent in, prepares based on that bad info, and they all get screwed up. After the debrief with the survivors, everyone knows the previous teams lied.

Yep. That is the risk.

And then the system picks up that lie and it becomes cannon.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Yep. That is the risk.

And then the system picks up that lie and it becomes cannon.

I’m not sure I can make this any clearer. I can’t tell if you’re trolling, or if that’s really what you interpreted.

 

[gyoja]

It’s getting real deep in here. I better put my hip waders on!

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Which is why if you do MMA you need to be good to be successful at it. And if you use a tazer or a gun. You don't.

This falls under ambushing/counter-ambushing with a given force multiplier. That is a skill, and it’s a skill that people who are physically disadvantaged focus on.

 

[drop bear]

I’m not sure I can make this any clearer. I can’t tell if you’re trolling, or if that’s really what you interpreted.

You won't get it.

Ok. Try this. Someone said Photon guy does not appear very knowledgeable on the subject. That was the original concern.

But how did people come to that conclusion?

Did they measure any sort of practical competency against their own. Or against a standard or anything at all?

And if they didn't then that conclusion is a fabrication.

Which if used as a yardstick to measure knowledge is quite simply an unusable method.

Now people can base their opinion of Photon Guy's knowledge on their training. But if they used the same unusable yardstick to base their own training. Then that is flawed as well.

There is no good way to tell truth from fiction.

 

[gyoja]

We’re drowning in it now! 🤣

 

[drop bear]

This falls under ambushing/counter-ambushing with a given force multiplier. That is a skill, and it’s a skill that people who are physically disadvantaged focus on.

That is still a measurable skill and needs to be treated in the same way as being good or bad at anything else is.

In this case can granny ambush and counter ambush people better than anyone else.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

You won't get it.

Ok. Try this. Someone said Photon guy does not appear very knowledgeable on the subject. That was the original concern.

But how did people come to that conclusion?

Did they measure any sort of practical competency against their own. Or against a standard or anything at all?

And if they didn't then that conclusion is a fabrication.

Which if used as a yardstick to measure knowledge is quite simply an unusable method.

Now people can base their opinion of Photon Guy's knowledge on their training. But if they used the same unusable yardstick to base their own training. Then that is flawed as well.

There is no good way to tell truth from fiction.

@gyoja How far back does the infantry’s and SOCOM’s store of generational fighting knowledge go? WWII?

The gun community has its own correcting mechanism, like with MMA. The difference is, people die when it happens.

Miami Dade Shootout

UT Sniper 1966

North Hollywood Shooting

 

[gyoja]

@gyoja How far back does the infantry’s and SOCOM’s store of generational fighting knowledge go? WWII?

The gun community has its own correcting mechanism, like with MMA. The difference is, people die when it happens.

Miami Dade Shootout

UT Sniper 1966

North Hollywood Shooting

As far as Ranger Regiment and the predecessors to Special Operations, WWII is where that knowledge begins. As far as the Infantry, we reach all the way back to the ancient world for lessons learned.