Adam Chan - Basic Grab Releases Exercises

Gerry Seymour

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If every time that you apply a locking skill, your opponent just collapses down, how will you be able to train the counter and anti-counter?

1. You apply wrist lock with downward force, your opponent raise his elbow to counter you.
2. You change your downward force into horizontal force, your opponent turns his body to counter you.
3. You change your horizontal force into a pulling force, your opponent ...

The issue is how long will you stay in the 1 step technique training. When will you get into the combo training?
He's not talking about resistant vs. non-resistant. He's talking about trained attack vs. untrained attack.
 

Tony Dismukes

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I like both. If I teach a student to always 'attack' correctly, I could be missing stuff. So for a wrist grab, if they grab appropriately, X technique may be effective. But then they grab with their arm twisted around, and now all of a sudden breaking their structure looks slightly different. A lot easier probably, but it could confuse me if I expect the technique to work. With new people, I like to get a chance to work with them before they are taught to fight properly, so I can see more directly how what I'm doing would apply to an untrained person.

He's not talking about resistant vs. non-resistant. He's talking about trained attack vs. untrained attack.

Im not even talking about practicing against a trained wrestling/Jiu-jitsu style attack. Im talking about training against an attack which is some way effective. The grabs that were being countered would not be a danger to even an untrained defender.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Im not even talking about practicing against a trained wrestling/Jiu-jitsu style attack. Im talking about training against an attack which is some way effective. The grabs that were being countered would not be a danger to even an untrained defender.
Initially I was replying to your comments. Went back and watched the video, and yeah. A 12 year old could escape those grabs. I like the one point where he pretends he cannot escape it at (1 minute in).
 

Gerry Seymour

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Im not even talking about practicing against a trained wrestling/Jiu-jitsu style attack. Im talking about training against an attack which is some way effective. The grabs that were being countered would not be a danger to even an untrained defender.
Agreed. I think (hope) they are like the "classical" start in traditional JMA. Many of those are static (or might as well be) wrist grips and the like. They don't serve as real attacks, but more like a heavy bag for grappling. You can tell if you managed the technique okay, but not whether you did the other 2/3 of your job (defending and controlling).
 

Buka

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As a side note, I always believed that if someone places their hand on me in anything but a friendly manner, it's the old finders keepers mentality. Their hands/arms are now my property.

However...thinking about this I realized in my whole life the only place anyone has ever grabbed my wrist was in a dojo.

So......I ask myself, if I had known this back then - would I have trained wrist grabs less frequently?

Probably not, they're kind of fun.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I always believed that if someone places their hand on me in anything but a friendly manner, it's the old finders keepers mentality. Their hands/arms are now my property.
Your opponent grabs your hand. At that moment, you are thinking about his hand. He is thinking about the other part of your body. He is one step ahead of you. You don't know when and how he will release that grip. Your opponent has just put you in defense mode. That's his advantage.

- Your opponent grabs your wrist.
- You try to break his grip.
- He let go that grip and punch on your face.
 
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Buka

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Your opponent grabs your hand. At that moment, you are thinking about his hand. He is thinking about the other part of your body. He is one step ahead of you. You don't know when and how he will release that grip. Your opponent has just put you in defense mode. That's his advantage.

- Your opponent grabs your wrist.
- You try to break his grip.
- He let go that grip and punch on your face.

When someone grabs me, if I'm working, all I think about is the report I'm going to have to write. Which really, really irritates me. I hate writing reports.

Not working - I like being in close. So if I'm not working all I think about is welcoming him to my world. Sure beats chasing him down. I don't chase so fast any more.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Your opponent grabs your hand. At that moment, you are thinking about his hand. He is thinking about the other part of your body. He is one step ahead of you. You don't know when and how he will release that grip. Your opponent has just put you in defense mode. That's his advantage.

- Your opponent grabs your wrist.
- You try to break his grip.
- He let go that grip and punch on your face.
If he's grabbing my hand, I started out a beat behind. Now that he's given me the gift of a hand, I can change that up.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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all I think about is welcoming him to my world. Sure beats chasing him down. I don't chase so fast any more.
1. Your opponent attacks you, you respond to it.
2. You attack your opponent, your opponent responds to it, you then take advantage on his respond.

Which approach is better? IMO 2 > 1.
 

Gerry Seymour

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You are thinking about his hand while he is thinking about your head, that's the problem.

Not necessarily. When I practice control from a wrist grip (a good basic starting point), the first move is about restricting his access to my head, rather than being about his hand. His hand is just the tool I'm using for that control.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Not necessarily. When I practice control from a wrist grip (a good basic starting point), the first move is about restricting his access to my head, rather than being about his hand. His hand is just the tool I'm using for that control.
Your opponent grabs your wrist, after 1/10 second, he releases that grip and punch on your face. How do you know that your respond within that 1/10 second is always correct?

IMO, the best strategy is:

- Your opponent tries to grab your wrist.
- You rotate your arm to avoid his grabbing.
- You then grab his wrist.
- You guild his arm away from his face.
- You release your grip, and punch on his face.
 
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Gerry Seymour

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Your opponent grabs your wrist, after 1/10 second, he releases that grip and punch on your face. How do you know that your respond within that 1/10 second is always correct?

IMO, it's better to take the control in your hand.

- Your opponent tries to grab your wrist.
- You rotate your arm to avoid his grabbing.
- You then grab his wrist.
- You release your grip, and punch on his face.
It doesn't have to be. If he does that, he's never going to get enough of a grip to start me moving against it, anyway. If he holds temporarily, I'll still start the movement to control him from that shoulder. I don't need him to maintain his grip - just to hang around the half second or so it takes to bring my hand up on the outside of his.

Meanwhile, my other hand has its own mission. Depending on the situation, it might be a punch, securing his grip (which flows from a guard position to defend any incoming punch), or a counter-grab if hard grappling is a better fit. The point is I can use the same movement on my gripped hand in all three cases.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Your opponent grabs your wrist, after 1/10 second, he releases that grip and punch on your face. How do you know that your respond within that 1/10 second is always correct?

IMO, the best strategy is:

- Your opponent tries to grab your wrist.
- You rotate your arm to avoid his grabbing.
- You then grab his wrist.
- You guild his arm away from his face.
- You release your grip, and punch on his face.
And what in my description led you to think I wasn't focused on taking the control back?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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And what in my description led you to think I wasn't focused on taking the control back?
Let me ask a different question. When your opponent kicks your knee, what will be your respond?

1. Drop your arm to block it?
2. Raise your leg to block it?
3. Step back to get away?
4. Step in to jam his kick?
5. Move to the side to get away?
- ...

No matter what your respond may take, your opponent just force you to respond to his move and fall into his set up.

Will it be better if you kick your opponent's knee instead?
 

drop bear

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As a side note, I always believed that if someone places their hand on me in anything but a friendly manner, it's the old finders keepers mentality. Their hands/arms are now my property.

However...thinking about this I realized in my whole life the only place anyone has ever grabbed my wrist was in a dojo.

So......I ask myself, if I had known this back then - would I have trained wrist grabs less frequently?

Probably not, they're kind of fun.

I collar tie with the wrist a lot.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Let me ask a different question. When your opponent kicks your knee, what will be your respond?

1. Drop your arm to block it?
2. Raise your leg to block it?
3. Step back to get away?
4. Step in to jam his kick?
5. Move to the side to get away?
- ...

No matter what your respond may take, your opponent just force you to respond to his move and fall into his set up.

Will it be better if you kick your opponent's knee instead?
It might be better. But that can be the response he's looking for, too. The correct answer, to all of the situations you're bringing up, is "it depends". Sometimes, raising a leg might be the right answer, if it sets up what I want. Other times, stepping away might create the space I want. Other times, moving in might get me to the grappling distance I want. Sometimes returning the kick is a good answer. Actually, I'd say that's the least likely of my responses. If I can keep moving the way I'd like to (whether that's in, out, or angled), then why let his kick alter where I was heading?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Let's look at why your opponent wants to grab your wrist.

- You are in boxing guard.
- Your opponent wants to punch your head but your arms are in his way.
- If he uses "parry" to remove your arm, you can spin your arm with him and let him to parry into the thin air..
- So he wants to "temporary" grabbing your wrist. Move your arm out of his punching path. Also prevent your arm to spin with him.

Is there any better solution than this?
 
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