For comments from the photographer community, see the original posting.
I like the part where they refuse to tell the reporter why he's being arrested. I thought that was a requirement of LE.
ABC Reporter Arrested in Denver filming story
- Thread starter Bob Hubbard
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For comments from the photographer community, see the original posting.
I like the part where they refuse to tell the reporter why he's being arrested. I thought that was a requirement of LE.
OP
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http://www.photoattorney.com/2008/08/photography-not-allowed-even-for-big.html
ABC has video
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5670682
Looks like the cop in question literally kept shoving the guy into oncoming traffic.
ABC has video
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5670682
Looks like the cop in question literally kept shoving the guy into oncoming traffic.
Everybody knows the entire two-party system is bogus now anyway. Neither party is worth a good God Damn anymore.
Last election, Ralph Nader bought a ticket to the debate to sit in the audience and watch and was refused entry but not told why.
I think the socialist state is already here - I think it arrived with the New World Order on the vice-puppeteer's hand shoved up Ronald Reagan's butt.
Last election, Ralph Nader bought a ticket to the debate to sit in the audience and watch and was refused entry but not told why.
I think the socialist state is already here - I think it arrived with the New World Order on the vice-puppeteer's hand shoved up Ronald Reagan's butt.
Those democrats are sure tolerant of opposing views aren't they?
That imagery shows how enlightened you really are. Why don't you try growing up?
Archangel M
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I dont know what transpired before the camera started rolling or why the hotel called on the reporter; but the way this was handled, espically in as sensitive a time as the DNC convention, needs to be investigated by the Dept IMO. In addition, the way he was pushed into the street was unprofessional as well as unsafe. If he doesnt move and you have PC to arrest than just arrest the guy, dont lay hands on someone and start pushing him around unless you are arresting him. Thats my .02.
The cigar smoking sergeant also needs a talking to by his superios IMO. Thats just damn unprofessional, espically on national TV.
The cigar smoking sergeant also needs a talking to by his superios IMO. Thats just damn unprofessional, espically on national TV.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
Where the hell are people supposed to walk then? This is yet another example of how we only have rights when it suits the elite class for us to have them.
I'm not a fan of ABC, but he had every right to be there. I bet this is the result of some elitist political personality panicing about being caught on camera taking a bribe....I'm sorry...I mean.."contribution"...from a lobbyist.
I'm not a fan of ABC, but he had every right to be there. I bet this is the result of some elitist political personality panicing about being caught on camera taking a bribe....I'm sorry...I mean.."contribution"...from a lobbyist.
Imua Kuntao
Green Belt
I have had run ins with leos, I have not thought good of them for some time now. To many it is just a job, and like so many other people, they dont seem to like it to much (wrong kind of work for wrong kind of person).
I give respect when dealing with them, and I know more about the state Penal code than ever. Our country is going to hell in a handbasket, those in control are only out for themselves and not the "WE the People". Some leos are doing favors, somr get paid by others, some use the power however they want.
I give respect when dealing with them, and I know more about the state Penal code than ever. Our country is going to hell in a handbasket, those in control are only out for themselves and not the "WE the People". Some leos are doing favors, somr get paid by others, some use the power however they want.
You know in another life time I used to control media access among other things on a certain property. Really this is nothing all that big and the reporter new better. The side walk is owned and maintained by the hotel and they can right fully ask someone to vacate that area. It appears that they did so with the ABC people but then the ABC people encroached, police called and were cited for tress passing. Was it handled well? No it was not. Was there fault on both sides? Yes. Media people well know these rules but like to go beyond them. (that is how you get a better story and pictures) Brings back memories of an attempted kidnapping and how the media tried to break every rule. :shrug:
We need to remember that the news media isn't always a independent private group. Government controlled news has been a part of our society since before the cold war... hell probably longer than that.
One other thought... this could all have been staged. Need to look ahead in the next few days to see where this leads. If it's an isolated incident then the fall out will come down on it's own.
If it was spontaneous and really happening then those guys should've known to use the rear entrance (what am I saying they always use the rear entrance when dealing with the American public...
) and avoided the media that way.
Also what's this... did I miss it somehow on the video??
Interesting note... the "video" jumped from the reporter being pushed across the street to the actual arrest... part of me is curious as to what happened in between...
One other thought... this could all have been staged. Need to look ahead in the next few days to see where this leads. If it's an isolated incident then the fall out will come down on it's own.
If it was spontaneous and really happening then those guys should've known to use the rear entrance (what am I saying they always use the rear entrance when dealing with the American public...
) and avoided the media that way.Also what's this... did I miss it somehow on the video??
I saw the cuffs going on but the hands on the neck thing I missed... or I need new glasses.
Interesting note... the "video" jumped from the reporter being pushed across the street to the actual arrest... part of me is curious as to what happened in between...
punisher73
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Could it have been handeled a little better? Probably, but let's not forget the actions of the reporter.
1) Most places have loitering ordinances concerning people just standing around outside of businesses etc. Did you watch how big the crew was standing there blocking entrance into and out of the building or people walking the sidewalks? This is also against most ordinances, yes, you can be somewhere as long as it does not interfere with the normal course of traffic/business. So yes, he had the right to be there, but not to stand in a way that blocks the sidewalk and entrance of the place.
2) Reporter was already asked to move to the SIDE of the entrance (implication he was blocking the entrance). At this point the reporter should have followed the order and moved to a postion where he was not blocking the building. END OF STORY RIGHT THERE. Again, the reporter was NOT banned at that point, he was told to move locations. The reporter REFUSED to move so the officer opted to just remove him from the property.
3) Reporter refuses to leave, keeps talking on his cell phone while the officer is talking to him. We are all human, for those of you who have kids, you don't get a little mad when you are trying to tell them something and they are talking away on the phone and ignoring you and tell you "hold on"? Don't you also think that he got a talking to before he got there to handle the problem from his supervisor? I try and treat people fair, but it starts to raise the blood pressure when they think what I am telling them doesn't apply to them. Again, respect is given when it is shown. The reporter showed the officer no respect on that video, just wanted to argue.
4) The officer phsycially moved him into the street and was right there with him the whole time. He didn't "push him into traffic".
5) When the decision was made to arrest him, the reporter starts to resist arrest and pull away while the police are trying to cuff him. So, NO, the police do not have to tell him at that exact moment what he is being arrested for, your main concern is getting the subject under control safely for both of you.
The story is being hyped because of why the reporter was there in the first place. Politicians and lobbyists in a private meeting. There would be NO STORY if the reporter would have just moved to the side of the entrance like he was asked in the first place. The newsmedia is going to shift blame from one of their own to other people to make it seem like a bigger deal than what it was. I have dealt with reporters before and they often misunderstand what "freedom of press" actually means.
1) Most places have loitering ordinances concerning people just standing around outside of businesses etc. Did you watch how big the crew was standing there blocking entrance into and out of the building or people walking the sidewalks? This is also against most ordinances, yes, you can be somewhere as long as it does not interfere with the normal course of traffic/business. So yes, he had the right to be there, but not to stand in a way that blocks the sidewalk and entrance of the place.
2) Reporter was already asked to move to the SIDE of the entrance (implication he was blocking the entrance). At this point the reporter should have followed the order and moved to a postion where he was not blocking the building. END OF STORY RIGHT THERE. Again, the reporter was NOT banned at that point, he was told to move locations. The reporter REFUSED to move so the officer opted to just remove him from the property.
3) Reporter refuses to leave, keeps talking on his cell phone while the officer is talking to him. We are all human, for those of you who have kids, you don't get a little mad when you are trying to tell them something and they are talking away on the phone and ignoring you and tell you "hold on"? Don't you also think that he got a talking to before he got there to handle the problem from his supervisor? I try and treat people fair, but it starts to raise the blood pressure when they think what I am telling them doesn't apply to them. Again, respect is given when it is shown. The reporter showed the officer no respect on that video, just wanted to argue.
4) The officer phsycially moved him into the street and was right there with him the whole time. He didn't "push him into traffic".
5) When the decision was made to arrest him, the reporter starts to resist arrest and pull away while the police are trying to cuff him. So, NO, the police do not have to tell him at that exact moment what he is being arrested for, your main concern is getting the subject under control safely for both of you.
The story is being hyped because of why the reporter was there in the first place. Politicians and lobbyists in a private meeting. There would be NO STORY if the reporter would have just moved to the side of the entrance like he was asked in the first place. The newsmedia is going to shift blame from one of their own to other people to make it seem like a bigger deal than what it was. I have dealt with reporters before and they often misunderstand what "freedom of press" actually means.
Archangel M
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I think a lot of these stories bring out our personal feelings VS looking for the truth. The people with the cameras get to MAKE the news. Was that the entire unedited footage? Do we know all the details? Nope. My criticism was of the handling of the situation, not of the legality of the situation. Ive never been as fan of laying hands on people unless there is an arrest being made. And smoking in public while on duty is just a professionalisim thing with me.
Imua Kuntao
Green Belt
Yes, I was just realizing that just before reading your response, You are correct, the footage has been edited and we do not know what happened before, and futher more I know many leos can be patient and can only take so much. Why was he alone and not with a news crew?
Hmmm, In my state the Sidewalk is my responsibility to maintain and to make sure is clear but the the City/Local Government has the right away and could build it into road if they wanted too.
Archangel M
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Same here. I "own" my property up to the far edge of the sidewalk. The sidewalk to the curb belongs to the town. But I still have to mow it.
This whole case hinges on where the property of the hotel stops and the public sidewalk begins. It is very well possible that the hotel has a property interest that extends past the doors of the building. For instance, it may have stairs leading down to the sidewalk. Also, based on this article and the limited view of the video, there is no way for us to evaluate the extension of the business.
That being said, the officer did tell the reporter to move. Due to the video editing, it is impossible for us to know how many times. Based on the officers tone of voice when he says, Lets move, one could infer that he had told him at least once before.
In regards to the officers actions, he moved the reporter out of the area. That is not so unreasonable. Having worked large events, though not nearly the size of the DNC Convention, it is typically frowned upon to arrest people for mere tresspassing. Therefore, telling the person to move, then making him move, rather than arresting him, is not so unreasonable. Then, after continued resistance, the officer or sergeant made the decision to arrest.
Of course, since its on camera, like all uses of force, it looks bad.
That being said, the officer did tell the reporter to move. Due to the video editing, it is impossible for us to know how many times. Based on the officers tone of voice when he says, Lets move, one could infer that he had told him at least once before.
In regards to the officers actions, he moved the reporter out of the area. That is not so unreasonable. Having worked large events, though not nearly the size of the DNC Convention, it is typically frowned upon to arrest people for mere tresspassing. Therefore, telling the person to move, then making him move, rather than arresting him, is not so unreasonable. Then, after continued resistance, the officer or sergeant made the decision to arrest.
Of course, since its on camera, like all uses of force, it looks bad.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #18
Unedited footage needs to be shown to see the full picture I think.
Well, as always, what we see, and what actually happened could differ greatly. Was he asked before to leave the area? Was there a designated area for reporters to be in? Was the size of the crew so big that it was blocking access to something? Of course, knowing that the cameras are rolling, the reporter in question is going to say things and act in a fashion that will attempt to make him look like the good guy and the cops the bad guys.
I do think that pushing the guy into traffic was wrong. As for physically touching him afterwards..well, I'd imagine the cops are only going to tell you to do something so many times before they do it for you. Put your hands behind your back...do it. If after the 2nd time and you don't, its probably safe to assume they're going to put your hands behind your back for you.
I'm sure there will be an investigation on this, and if there isn't, there should be. It'll be interesting to see how things turn out.
I do think that pushing the guy into traffic was wrong. As for physically touching him afterwards..well, I'd imagine the cops are only going to tell you to do something so many times before they do it for you. Put your hands behind your back...do it. If after the 2nd time and you don't, its probably safe to assume they're going to put your hands behind your back for you.
I'm sure there will be an investigation on this, and if there isn't, there should be. It'll be interesting to see how things turn out.
Archangel M
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The way I do things, I ask you to move...I tell you to MOVE!...I tell you to move or you are going to be arrested...then I arrest you. Crowd control is different from an obnoxious individual. I could see pushing a large group down the street. An individual reporter with the camera rolling? Not so much.
