A theory on Ki and Chi

Josh Oakley

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Energy is energy. Since that is everything, to me, how I think of it as physical energy has made it easier for me to make the association between certain stances, mechanical motions for techniques, which can channel it better. I have found thinking of it like that has allowed me a much greater degree of control over it; but energy is just that, the undefinable ultimately, especially when it becomes something we arent just speaking of as a fighting mechanic, but also something which is spiritually pervasive throughout our art and being.

Kinetic energy is just, as a westerner, interpreting the esoteric definitions of chi. I just hope no one has walked away from this mistakenly thinking that, that is ALL I think 'chi' is.

This leads me to suspect SERIOUS deficiencies in your knowledge of ki and kinetic energy.

Also...

"Mechanical motions for techniques "

..as opposed to non-mechanical motions?

"Fighting mechanics "
You do NOT want to see what they can do with a socket wrench.

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WC_lun

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Anatomical motions for techniques, maybe? Mechanical motions makes it sound like you have bionic body parts or something :)

Zenjael, with all due respect, it sounds like you don't have a solid grasp on this subjest material. You would be best served by just training and not trying to delve so much into the energy aspects of it, especially if you do not have an instructor that is very knowledgable in that area. Otherwise you'll just be working on assumptions and theory that could be very flawed, actually retarding any positive training you are doing.
 

oaktree

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Hi ZenJael,
Looking at the diferent forms of energy may help in understanding the differences and how energy is converted.

Kinetic energy is just, as a westerner, interpreting the esoteric definitions of chi
Qi can be defined depending on its usage in everyday Chinese language. In English the two main usuage of Qi being discussed are the ones used in esoteric/religious and the defination used in every day talk refering to a "catch all for energy"

The esoteric meanings of Qi can not have a scientific defination for them anymore than God can be explained using science.

The esoteric meaning is full of superstitious, religous, taboo, mysticism, and that is fine if you are studying a religion but saying the esoteric meaning of Qi means Kinetic energy is saying something along the lines that Jesus was raised from the dead with kinetic energy
(In Daoism the priest uses the magic talisman called Fu 符 the priest puts his Qi 炁((a variant of Qi 气 This may be one example why so much confusion between esoteric vs everyday use)) and then raises the dead.

The esoteric meaning with Qi belongs in the same catagory as magick which should be in the realm of religion.
Hopefully my post clears up some misunderstanding of translation of the words. I am also not sure when terms such as deng neng(kinetic energy) were being used in Chinese language I heard it was after Newton and the idea of western physics. This subject depending on how deep you go and how much knowledge one has on the language can get pretty deep like professor level deep.
 
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Jenna

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Really? Kindly show us how you're going to start heating your house with kinetic energy rather than thermal.
I think that is easy.. just connect the "line out" of the treadmill to the "line in" of the funace and *become* Usain Bolt like there is a ninja after you for crimes against philosophy! Bingo.. instant heat for all the family! Until the ninja catches up..

And but we need not fear even at that point! Green energy is still on hand.. First, disable the ninja! then one kind of thermal energy may be converted to another by plugging the "line out" from ones mouth to the direct "line in" of one's heating system.. then one begins to verbally start explaining ki and voila.. Instant hot air for all the family!

Ask me another..
 

Xue Sheng

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I have said this before and probably even in this thread.

Best definition of Qi and the easiest to get from a western perspective,

Strong Qi you’re healthy
Weak Qi you’re sick
No Qi you’re dead

We tend to make it a whole lot more mystical than it is generally based on translation errors
 

oaktree

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I have said this before and probably even in this thread.

Best definition of Qi and the easiest to get from a western perspective,

Strong Qi you’re healthy
Weak Qi you’re sick
No Qi you’re dead

We tend to make it a whole lot more mystical than it is generally based on translation errors

Thats what I was trying to say, you just like to simplify things. :lol:
 

Dirty Dog

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I think that is easy.. just connect the "line out" of the treadmill to the "line in" of the funace and *become* Usain Bolt like there is a ninja after you for crimes against philosophy! Bingo.. instant heat for all the family! Until the ninja catches up..

And but we need not fear even at that point! Green energy is still on hand.. First, disable the ninja! then one kind of thermal energy may be converted to another by plugging the "line out" from ones mouth to the direct "line in" of one's heating system.. then one begins to verbally start explaining ki and voila.. Instant hot air for all the family!

Ask me another..


Nah... that's just a method for converting kinetic energy to thermal energy. If they were the same (as Zenjael mistakenly claims) then conversion would not be necessary.
 

shesulsa

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It is long known that the Japanese and Chinese share quite diverse views on the matter of existant forces such as ki and chi. These differences however are merely cultural divides very recent, and overdue from an occupation and since lingering resentment of one population on another.

The fact is, Japanese and Chinese culture, for as long as the former has existed, shared an influx of ideologies. Japanese martial arts, primordially, were emulated from northern style arts.

When I strike, the energy flows from the ground, through my body, out my arm to the target. I believe chi is just kinetic energy, expediantly conducted through our bodies. Our bones, hollow, create conduits to minimize this force naturally for structural integrity against stresses, and so in certain positions and alignments, kinetic energy can flow more condusively and cohesively.

Chi is the feeling of this utilization. It is the degree of control over channeling kinetic energy through oneself to another.

Ki however, is a force which operates by binding two beings, one over the other. While many think kiai is to simply shout, it's really describing the bond created between two individuals by the sheer power of their being. Everyone has felt the presence of a master when they step in the square with them. Some have such great control over this bond, they can manifest this bond physically between themself and their desired subject. A quick search online gives a contemporary example of a man who can ring a bell by shouting. If you learn how to make a bowl of water ripple with your kiai, you've got the idea.

But sound, too, is a physical force, and kinetic energy. The difference is how it is utilized, with ki directing it manifestly externally, and chi doing so through internal contact.

Though they are indeed different, they both utilize the same element to gain control over the situation in totality, and ensure survival. And that is that they manipulate kinetic energy.

When one can strike a series of touching, separate boards, and only break the last board, I would fear that man's strike.

I think you're a young man in serious need of correct instruction. Leave the nest, Zen. Leave the nest. There's a whole world out there.
 

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