A Newbie's Intro

[Cthulhu]

No prob, Dronak. What you may want to try doing starting, well...now, is to practice your forms on your own, full speed, full power, as if you were testing, visualizing every movement and technique is done to perfection. Do this several times a day (great workout, too!). Basically, you need to be able to 'zone out', to the point where you're essentially in a meditative state while doing the form. When you take the exam, you basically want to be in that state when doing the form. This way, you really won't worry about the judge because, for all intents and purposes, they don't exist to you; the only thing that will matter are the 'attackers' in front of you as you do the form.

Good luck!

Cthulhu

 

[Dronak]

That's another good suggestion. I think I know what you mean. Back in high school when our gymnastics team went to the state competition, it was a big thing with lots of events going on all at once. But when it was my turn on one of the events, I was so concentrated on what I was doing that I blocked out everything else. It was as if the whole room was silent; I just didn't hear anything for the time of my routine. That is kind of a good way to forget about any judges or spectators. Some time before the exam I should find out how our teacher plans on running it. When we do forms in practice we pause between moves. I wonder if he'll do that, counting for us, or if we just do it on our own as smoothly as possible. Will we be doing this in small groups or one at a time? I'm sure we'll find out more details as we get closer to the exam. Our first official spring semester practice/class is tomorrow. I'm sure he'll tell us more about what he has planned for the semester then.

 

[Dronak]

Yup, another little update. I don't know how many people really care, but as a beginner I have to offer what I can. Plus it helps my post total. Our teacher said a little more about the exam and related topics. First, he split us into two groups right now. The group I'm in is starting to learn the traditional long form of Yang style tai chi. The other is doing another basic Shaolin long fist form, Linking Step Fist. As noted, the exam will be for people who have learned the first two basic forms, Six Closing Fist and Power Fist. If we pass, we can learn an Ambush Fist form shortly afterwards. If not, we stick with what we're currently doing. The general idea seems to be that we have to pass the exam (1) to move to the intermediate level forms and (2) to learn more than one form at once. He said he'd repeat the tests later for anyone who didn't pass it this time or didn't learn two basic forms yet. We can then pick two of the three basic forms to do for the test. So if I do pass the test, I'll be learning both Yang tai chi and the intermediate Ambush Fist form during this semester. Assuming enough people pass the exam and he does start teaching Ambush Fist this semseter, we'll end up with three groups with some people in two groups. I hope to do Linking Step Fist at some point in the future though; I'd really prefer to know all the basic forms before moving up, but I have to do what the instructor wants me to do. So that's the update. Oh, our instructor's classmate that will help with the judging is the same one who was here for a little while in the fall, so most of us have met her before. Not that that means anything to anyone else, but it means we've at least met one of the two other judges. Just tossing that in while I'm at it.

 

[arnisador]

Can you tell us a little bit about the forms you've learned? Do they seem to match their names? I'm curious what an "Ambush Fist" is!

 

[Dronak]

Well, I can try to, arnisador, but I don't really know a whole lot about them. The first one we learned was Six Closing Fist. The name unfortunately doesn't offer much help in figuring out what the form emphasizes. We were told that this form should always be taught first, so I'm guessing it may just be a sort of well rounded form containing a bit of a lot of aspects so that you can get the flavor of the style. The one we did this winter was Power Fist which, as I understand, is mainly for the purposes of developing power. Our teacher said that we should be putting all of our energy into every punch in the form and there are a lot of them. The overwhelming majority of our counts (where we pause when doing it) have a strike of one type or another. This form also uses some of the harder basic stances (like Crouching Tiger) more frequently. I guess that's another way to help increase power in some sense. The third basic form, which I'm not learning now because I'm doing tai chi instead, is Linking Step Fist. As I understand it, the point of this form is to help learn smooth, flowing movements and now to maintain your balance while doing them. We only just started that form (people not in the tai chi group, that is). At least for Power Fist and Linking Step Fist, I think the main purposes do match the names.

As far as Ambush Fist goes, I can't say much about it. I know there are two, First Ambush Fist and Second Ambush Fist, because the syllabus thing we got in the fall had both listed. They're higher level forms (intermediate, I suppose) and we haven't started learning them yet. If enough of us pass the exam at the end of the month, we will start one of them shortly afterwards though. If I pass, I may be able to say more about it in a month or so. I can guess a bit more, but keep in mind they are only guesses and I could be totally wrong.

Since they're called First and Second Ambush Fist I'd think they're related somehow, most likely in the general purpose of the form, I'd guess. Perhaps one builds more off Linking Step Fist and the other builds more off Power Fist, but both have the same general goal in mind. *shrug* Given the "Ambush" part, I would be inclined to guess that these two forms may be built more obviously like a combat sequence. I'm sure there are martial applications in all the forms, but some forms are just more obviously like a fighting form than others, you know? That's about all I could guess for the moment though. If you want to know more, let me know what you're looking for and I'll see if I can provide it.

 

[arnisador]

Thanks Dronak, I am finding this interesting. I don't know much about kung fu so I am learning things. Even the names of the forms are new to me.

 

[Dronak]

If the names are new, I can give you some more just so you will have heard them. We were given a four year planned syllabus back in the fall which listed everything we were hoping to do. It's changed already since we had a winter training session, but that doesn't affect the names on the paper. Since I'm not familiar with everything I can't guarantee that all of this is northern long fist Shaolin kung fu. The instructor did say other things would probably be taught later depending on individuals' ability and interests. But, here's the outline we received:

First Year, beginner: first semester -- stretching, warm ups, fundamental gestures and kicks, tan tuie with ten routines, Six Closing Fist, grabbing hands self defense skills; second semester -- Linking Step Fist, Power Fist

Second Year, middle level: first semester -- Second Ambush Fist, Monk Staff; second semester -- First Ambush Fist, Seven Stars Knife

Third Year, advanced-middle level: first semester -- Fourth Running Fight Fist, Three Elements Sword; second semester -- Cross Fist, Three Elements Sword Fighting Applications, Knife vs. Spear Fighting Applications

Fourth Year, advanced: Tai-Chu Long Fist, Third Cannon Fist, Fourth Cha Fist, Nine-Dragons Staff, Ba-Gua Broad Sword, Shaolin Spear

Other skills that may be taught based on personal potentials included: Yang style tai chi, Yang style tai chi sword, Tiger Fist, Snake Fist, Drunken Fist, Mantis Style Fist, Hon Style Fist, Chinese War Sword, Iron Fan. I think there were more listed on an earlier copy of this four year syllabus, but I only have the more recent copy now.

So that's our big plan. The first semester was right on because we were all starting from scratch, but we only did the first 5 of 10 tan tuie routines and didn't get to all of the grabbing hands applications listed on a separate sheet. The winter training took Power Fist out of the second semester. The spring will still have Linking Step Fist (for people not learning Yang tai chi) and an Ambush Fist, maybe the Second Ambush Fist since that was listed first on the sheet, for the people who pass the exam at the end of the month assuming there are like half a dozen people who pass to make it worth his time to teach the form. The teacher claims that we may be able to start some weapon training in the summer if we work hard enough and have a good enough foundation and background for it. Weapons in under one year? He's obviously pushing us quickly and he admitted as much. Since he's unsure of how long he'll be able to teach us, he wants to give us as much as he possibly can.

Anyway, since you mentioned that the names of the forms were new to you, I thought you might be interested in seeing our big four year plan with all the stuff the teacher originally intended to cover over the years. The names may not mean anything to you, a lot of them don't mean anything to me yet either, but it may still be interesting information.

 

[arnisador]

Thanks Dronak, I do find this interesting as I have even less real kung fu experience than you! I studied an American-created style of kung fu for less than a year. It wasn't like what you're describing.

 

[Dronak]

Well, we had our first performance yesterday and it went OK. The organizers apparently didn't have everything straight because there were three people in charge, not just one, and we think there were some communication problems. Anyway, we all met at school at around 9:40am (meaning I had to be up somewhat before 8am to eat and get ready) and drove out to Virginia to the college hosting the event. We got there near 11am, did some stretching on our own, a real short warm up set of basic stance exercises, and praticed the Six Closing Fist form we'd be performing a few times. We then got to check out the stage and figure out our positions so we'd know how to line ourselves up right. We originally thought the event was from 12-1:30pm and we'd be the last to go, but it turns out their lunch thing was starting at noon and the actual event wasn't starting until 2pm. But they changed us from the last group to the first one, so we were going on at about 2. We had some time to get a small lunch before coming back for the performance. BTW, our part was our instructor doing a solo sword form first (he was going to do a combat sword form with a classmate of his, but for some reason they couldn't do that, rats), then us students doing our basic form as a group, then the instructor going again with a barehand form. The three things together were our part of the show. Well, things got a little confused because while we were waiting, we somehow got the impression that this children's group was supposed to go on before us and they were waiting in the opposite wings of the stage. But they weren't and the background music for our teacher's performance started, so he had to go out before he was really fully ready. When he was done, we took our turn. I haven't seen the tape yet, so I don't know what the group as a whole looked like, but I think it turned out OK. We all knew our timing and communication was a little off, so it wasn't as clean as it could have been, but we're all still beginners. I was in the front row and nearly ran out of room, almost hitting a couple big firecracker decorations they put on the side of the stage. And if I was that close to the edge, the guy behind me on my left (4 in front, 5 in back, staggered) was off the visible stage for part of the performance. (Off the stage meaning in the wings, not fallen off the edge. ) I suspect we all had some minor bobbles, I'm pretty sure I lost my balance in a one leg stance once and had to touch my other foot down to avoid falling over, but on the whole it was probably OK. We went off, our teacher did his other form, and we were finished. We stuck around for a little while afterwards to get some group photos and eat and chat, then we headed home. All in all, it wasn't bad. It was just way too early to get up on a Sunday morning. I just had to oversleep today to make up for the sleep I missed this weekend. Next big thing in our schedule -- the little exam to see if we can start learning a more advanced Shaolin form.

 

[disciple]

Sounds like a lot of fun
Were you anywhere near nervous? I remember when I did some perfomances, I couldn't concentrate with the loud music from the next tent, children playing around, and other stuff
Do you know your forms in chinese (mandarin pin yin, if possible)? Because I never heard of those english terms before

Salute to you
:asian:

 

[Dronak]

Maybe a little, but I wasn't as nervous as I kind of expected to be. Over the years I've done enough public performances, primarily music concerts, that I'm semi used to it in general. But often when the performance is of something new to me, like this was, I'd be more nervous. I guess being in a group took off some of the pressure so I didn't worry so much about it. Our teacher had music during his performances, but we didn't. We had to have one guy in the group count for us so that we'd all stay basically together, so we didn't have any background sound. The performances were apparently all done one at a time on this school building's stage, so there weren't disctractions from other things going on simultaneously.

As for our forms' names, the instructor didn't write them out in Chinese for us. The sheet I have only has the English translations. I have a book which appears to contain a couple of the forms we're learning and it does have Chinese names. If I'm not mistaken, the Power Fist form is Gung Li Chuan and Linking Step Fist is Lien Bu Chuan. There are two Ambush Fist forms, First and Second, and I think their names are Yi Lu Mei Fu and Er Lu Mei Fu. I don't have a name for Six Closing Fist. He might have said the name in Chinese at some point, but I never wrote it down if he did. The book has two other forms, Shaw Fu Ien and Shih Tzu Tan, but I don't know what they translate as and whether or not those are even in our plan. There are a fair number of non Chinese speakers in the club, so the instructor generally sticks to English words. Once in a while he uses Chinese terms, but it's kind of rare at the moment. We might get more later though.

 

[Dronak]

Hi all. A little update for anyone who's interested. We had our first exam in class today. The whole procedure was simple enough. We drew numbers to see what order we'd go in. I got number 1. I was hoping for something in the middle, but oh well. The three judges (our instructor, one of his seniors, and a friend of his who is a two time world taekwondo champion) were seated at a table on one side of the room. Actually, it was a large hallway in the building, but you know. We each had to perform the two basic Shaolin forms we learned, but we did them one at a time. That is, we went through the list with everyone doing Six Closing Fist, then took a short break and cycled through the list again with everyone doing Power Fist. Once that was over, we got a few general comments from the judges. Our teacher's senior was here in the fall for a short time and she said she was impressed with the progress we had made over the few months she was gone. Our teacher said everything was generally OK, too. After the comments, we were finished and went home.

We won't get the results until our next practice on Tuesday. I guess out teacher needs to do some calculations before he can give us results. He said that we weren't being tested only on the forms and the accuracy of them, but martial spirit, attitude towards the teacher and classmates, I think attendance was getting factored in, too, a couple other things. So I suppose he has to weight those in and put together the three judges' results for everyone before getting final results. So it will be a few more days before I can tell you whether or not I passed. It seemed to go well enough, I don't think I had any major screw-ups so hopefully I passed. I'll see on Tuesday and I'll let you know the results around then.

 

[arnisador]

Sounds like a long test! Good luck and please do let us know what happens!

 

[disciple]

Sounds to me like a piece of cake for you :ninja: so, of course you will pass the test, unless your attitude got in the way :lol: j/k

salute
:asian:

 

[Dronak]

I just got back from class a little while ago. Two people were doing a make-up exam since they couldn't do it on Saturday, but we had a normal class apart from that. After they were done, we later found out our results. I did pass the exam. As far as I can tell, everyone who took it passed. I'll admit I was a little surprised considering what I saw in a couple people's forms, but there were other factors, too, and I'm sure our instructor is doing what he thinks is best for everyone. It doesn't exactly lessen my surprise, but whatever, it's not my decision to make. Our teacher did mention that two people "just passed" as he grouped us up so they'd have to work hard to keep up. I guess that means there was some noticeable difference between at least some of us. We didn't get any real specific comments or scores though. He just said we passed, grouped us up, and started teaching.

It appears that we've now been broken up into three more groups for a grand total of five now. The ones who passed the exam are in two groups and learning two forms at once while the ones who didn't or didn't take it are in one group learning only one form. We started with two groups: one for Linking Step Fist and one for Yang style tai chi; I'm in the tai chi group. I knew we'd have at least one more group after the exam, but I wasn't expecting three more. The teacher selected three students to learn Fourth Running Fight Fist, I think he called it. Don't ask me what that is, I haven't a clue. The rest of us got split into two groups: one learning First Ambush Fist and the other learning Second Ambush Fist. I knew there were two Ambush Fist forms so that's not as surprising as him adding that other form to this semester's teaching. All the people in Second Ambush Fist are from the Linking Step Fist group and all the people in First Ambush Fist are from the tai chi group. I think that's just because he didn't pull us all together before splitting us up again, so it was a sort of unintentional artificial division. He had the first group pick First or Second and they chose Second. That left me learning the First Ambush Fist form which our teacher said is actually a bit harder than the Second Ambush Fist. Lucky me.

So, that's the latest update on my training over here. I've learned two of the three basic Shaolin forms already, started learning some Yang style tai chi, and now get to start First Ambush Fist, an intermediate level Shaolin form. I'd really like to learn that third basic Shaolin form, but perhaps I'll get a chance to later. I'll see I guess. But that's all for now. I said I'd let you know the results and that's it -- I passed and get to learn another form now. I hope I can handle it.

P.S. -- I almost forgot. Our teacher also had us do the two basic forms we learned as a group and videotaped it. I think he said he plans to send it back to his master (our grandmaster) so he could see how the class was coming along. I'm not completely what to think of that one.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Hey, congrats! :cheers:

Did you get to watch the videotape? I've heard its a great way to see how you move.

 

[Cthulhu]

Congratulations, Dronak!

I agree with Kaith, a video of yourself doing a form is a great learning tool. If you didn't get to see the tape he made, simply record yourself doing your forms one day.

Cthulhu

Congrats again! :cheers:

 

[arnisador]

Yes, Congratulations! I'll be curious to hear why Ambush Fist is so named.

 

[Dronak]

Thanks. I'm glad I passed, but I'm a little concerned about actually being able to follow everything. Our teacher's method of instruction doesn't really match my best learning method so it's a little hard for me to follow him sometimes. He previously said that if we had trouble following some move picked out for this example, we may not be ready to go to more advanced forms. Well, I did have some trouble getting that move by his copy what I do teaching method. You can probably see why I'm a bit concerned then. Anyway, I didn't get to see the tape he made last night. He might make a copy for the club though so I may get to see it at some point. I'm curious as to what our grandmaster will think -- how well we've learned things for such a short period of time or how horrible we are because we're going way too fast. You could really look at it either way. I did see the video of our performance from a few weeks back though. It looked better as a whole than I thought it would from how it seemed people thought their individual performances went.

As for why Ambush Fist is called that, I can't be sure at this point. I've only been taught like 5 movements in one of the two forms. There's also the possibility of the translation not really capturing the exact meaning of the original. Flipping through the book I have which includes "solutions" for the techniques (i.e., how you could apply them in combat), I see a couple interesting things. The very first move says it can be used to grab the arms of two attackers, one on each side, and then pull them down. If there's a third attacker in front, a kick can be used on him/her. Oddly enough, it appears to be the only one that specifically mentions multiple attackers. There are a couple of techniques the book says can be used to defend against rod (staff) attacks. A crouching move is listed as used "to pick up sand or a stone" to throw in the face of the attacker. That's followed by a series of walks away from the opponent which our teacher showed us before and said can be used to kick up sand in the face of the opponent following you (it would be most likely followed by an attack on the opponent). It also looks like there are a fair number of double attacks, e.g. a simultaneous punch and kick or a punch/kick immediately followed by another punch/kick. I don't know if that really helps explain the form's name, but I thought they were interesting points.

 

[Cthulhu]

It'd be good if you could get us the romanization of the Chinese names. Depending on whether you're using Cantonese of Mandarin Chinese, Ambush Fist could translate as '<something> Kune' or '<something> chuan/quan'. If you could give us what that <something> is, one of us may be able to link that form up with something we've seen before.

Keep on training!

Cthulhu