Newbie Part 2 -- Weapons

[theneuhauser]

always nice to hear about your progress, dronak


here's a tip for spear, and staff, too

when you turn or switch, if you use a full extension in your arms when you spread your grip (like if you strike with the other side of the staff or change direction with spear) its a good measuring tool as to exactly where your hands are positioned on the weapon. so use just a few different extension lengths along the shaft (full stretch length, forward strike length, poking length, spinning grip length). you can kind of relate every movement to just a few hand positions.
i think its helpful, because after a few dozen times running through the practice form, you wont have to worry at all about where your hands are, and you can focus on balance and power and quickness and all the fun stuff-

 

[arnisador]

You'll have to burn your initials into your weapons! My arnis sticks all have mine on one end.

 

[theneuhauser]

is that like monogramming your underwear?

 

[arnisador]

Nope--my weapons are something that someone might want to steal.

 

[theneuhauser]

dude my undies are pretty sweetyou might want to rethink that last one...:rofl:

 

[Dronak]

Yes, arnisador. I'm going to have to put my initials or something on my weapons so that they will be uniquely identified as mine. Carve them into the end of the weapon or something. Since the staff and broadsword are both wood, I look for little characteristics of the wood that stand out as identifying. I could probably recognize my weapons again based on those points. But putting some more unique identifier on it is a good idea. I'll have to do that. BTW, still no word on the lost broadsword yet. Saturday classes tend to be smaller than Tuesday and Thursday, so I wouldn't bet on getting it back today. Perhaps Tuesday.

theneuhauser, you're probably right about there being only a few major grips on a staff or spear. I'll just need more practice to get used to them and how to adjust between them smoothly. With enough practice I'll be able to do it. For example, the last few moves we were taught involved spinning the staff in one hand and changing stances as the major components. We ended with us holding the staff vertically and touching it to the ground. My grip for the spinning moves is OK, but when I have to put the staff down, my right hand is too low on the staff. Somehow I need to adjust it up before or during the moves leading to that part. I commented in class that I seem to have problems getting the grips right and our teacher basically said I just needed more practice. I'm sure I'll work it out given enough time.

 

[theneuhauser]

im sure that you will, too.
this is a fun thread, btw, it helps me to rethink old bad habits.

now if only somebody could help me with that butterfly twist...

 

[Dronak]

Neat, I'm glad you're getting something out of it, too, theneuhauser. From my other thread, I know that people are interested in reading about how my training is going even if they're not replying (which I understand because some of my posts don't lend themselves to replies). This is useful for me because I'm creating a sort of journal during my training periods and getting some helpful comments from others now and then, too. I can save the threads later and keep them as part of my notes, a record of my thoughts and such as I went along. It will be interesting. I wasn't sure if it was more than just a story to others. It's kind of nice to see that this is encouraging people to think about their own training in some form. Even if it's just to think about your basic stuff, revisiting the basics now and then is always a good idea. No more news from class yet, but perhaps later in the week when we've had another class or two and learned some more new moves I'll have something else to add. We'll see how things go.

 

[Dronak]

Well, we're approaching the end of the staff form. I suspect that means the broadsword group is also nearing the end of their form unless the two forms have very different lengths. We should finish the staff form in two more classes. Our teacher said we might be able to do it in one, but it's probably better to split it in two to make it a little easier for us. The form keeps getting cooler each class. Last week we ended with a move where we swing the staff in a huge, horizontal circle around us. Yesterday we learned a move that's almost running while using both hands to swing the staff on the sides of the body (it's sort of back, down, fwd, up on the R then continue the swing up to the L side and go back, down, fwd, up on the L, then up to the R side, etc. with the foward swings being almost vertical). Next time we'll get to spin the staff again in the basic way we learned back in the beginning of the session and this time pass it behind our backs. The ending of the form which we'll do the class after next involves swinging the staff around our necks. Our teacher said that we'll learn that because that's the original form and he has to show us the original form. But it's really just a showy move, not practical, and he's going to give us an alternative to use for demonstrations. That way we don't have to worry about dropping the staff right at the end of the form. I'm enjoying it, but it's a little tough to get some of the stuff, especially adjusting my grip between moves. But I guess that's what the rest of the summer will be for, practice and figuring out stuff like that.

We're also nearing the end of the First Ambush Fist form we started in the spring so we should be able to finish that before the summer ends, too. The other groups that started intermediate level forms in the spring finished already, so we're the last group left. The tai chi seems to have been put on hold until the fall, but it's a long form so we weren't going to finish it in the summer anyway. It's probably better to leave it out and let us work on one weapon form and one barehand form for the summer. Oh, we're learning some more tan tui routines now, too. We did the 6th yesterday and our teacher said we'd learn the 7th one next time. He's said there are ten total and if we have enough classes left in the summer, he could do all the ones that are left. I have no idea how difficult or complex the later routines are though.

That's my update though. The staff form is nearing completion, hopefully we'll finish the First Ambush Fist form, too, and we're getting at least a few more new tan tui routines. I wonder exactly when the summer session ends though. I know we have class next week, but I'm not sure how much later than that we're going.

 

[Dronak]

We finished off the staff form last night. But we have two endings to learn, the original and the alternate one for demonstrations and such. We did the alternate one yesterday. The real one involves spinning the staff around your neck, as I've probably mentioned, and since you can rather easily lose your staff doing that, we have this alternate one that skips that so we don't have to worry about losing our staff right at the end of a demo. I think we're going to work on the same set of moves again tomorrow, maybe with the real ending though, so I'll have a chance to check out how the teacher does it again and ask him questions if necessary. I've basically got it, but just before the ending sequence, we have to spin the staff and pass it behind our back. I think I've basically gotten that pass down, but I don't know how far to spin the staff before doing the pass. I can start the pass at two or three different points in the spin and that changes which end of the staff is forward at the end of that move. Since this affects the ending sequence and which end of the staff is on the ground when we finish the form, I'll need to find out exactly when we're supposed to start the behind the back pass. Apart from that though (and the real ending), I think I basically know how it goes. It needs work, obviously, but with practice it will get better.

We haven't done any more of the First Ambush Fist form for a while and I'm wondering when he's going to get around to teaching it again. I don't know how many more summer classes we have, but I don't think it's a whole lot. I know we're nearing the end of the form, but I'm not sure how close. If a number of the moves are repeats though, it will be easier to learn the end. I'm sure there will be at least a few more new moves we haven't done though. On the other hand, we are learning some more tan tui routines. We were taught routine six last week and just did routine seven last night. Seven down, three to go. I wonder if he'll be able to do all three remaining routines before the summer session is over. We'd probably need three more classes to do so, teaching one per class, and that's reasonable as long as we have class all next week, too. We'll see, I guess. That's the update for now though. I'll post more when something new comes up.

P.S. -- In my thread about tan tui I posted a link to a page with photos of the routines we're learning. They don't have every count of every routine, but hopefully there are enough to give you a sense of what we're doing. For those of you familiar with tan tui, you may be able to figure out the whole routine from those photos, I don't know. I just thought I'd mention the link in the other thread here since I just said we're learning more tan tui now.

 

[arnisador]

That's interesting--learning an alternate ending with demos in mind.

How often do you work applications of the forms? At all?

 

[Dronak]

Well, our teacher gave us a couple of reasons for the alternate ending. To avoid losing your staff in a demo was one, but it's a good one. You don't want to go through all that work of doing the form the best you can just to lose your staff right before the end and finish on a bad note like that. Another was that when you get sweaty it's harder for the staff to sort of stick to your neck on the spin making it harder to control the move. A third was that the form was designed for a uniform width staff and we're using a tapered staff (there are a few reasons for that). When the staff is uniform the balance point is dead center and easy to find. Since ours are tapered, the balance point is closer to the thicker end and more difficult to locate. I suppose it's also difficult to consistently locate it accurately when doing the neck spin. That would also make the move harder to do. Plus it's not a practical move, just a showy move to end the form with, so there's really nothing lost by altering the ending to a move that's easier to do and control.

As for training applications of forms, we don't do that very much, at least not right now. Our teacher does tell us some of the applications sometimes, often when he thinks it will help us learn or better understand the move he's teaching, so we do discuss them. We don't really use them though, like having someone attack us so we can practice a block/strike combination. I suspect that we'll practice the applications a lot more when our teacher decides we're ready to start some combat training. He has made mention of that so I suppose we could get there sooner than we think, at least the people who have been training long enough. For now though, he basically just tells us what some of them are to help us learn things and/or keep in mind some important points while practicing.

 

[Dronak]

Yesterday was our last official summer training session practice. I knew we were only going to about mid-July, I didn't expect it to end on a Tuesday though. Usually our teacher comes on Tuesday and Thursday, so I thought we'd finish on a Thursday. Oh well. We have plenty of stuff to practice. Besides all the forms we learned before, we have two new tan tui routines to work on as well as one weapon form. Chances are we'll do the last three tan tui routines in the fall. Our teacher did show us the real ending to the staff form last night, where you spin the staff around your neck. It is a kind of neat move, but from a little playing around I can see why it's rather hard to get right all the time. Oh, he had to correct our ending, too. Apparently when he taught the ending the first time, he forgot which way we faced in the beginning and we ended up facing the opposite way we started. So he thought for a minute and then realized the turn on like the next to last move was done in the wrong direction before. He corrected that for us and now we end facing the same way we started. I thought that was a bit odd before, so I'm glad he realized it and corrected it for us now rather than have us practice the wrong finish for a couple months until the fall session starts up.

I was a bit disappointed that we didn't finish the First Ambush Fist form though. He said we could finish it yesterday, but apparently he thought we got further along than we did, so we didn't finish it after all. The good thing is he said we should only need one more class to finish it up. He showed us the rest which doesn't look too bad after the tornado kick. (Most of us have at least some trouble doing that kick.) It was that and around three other major moves before we hit the ending sequence which looks rather similar to the ending of our Six Closing Fist form. Our teacher has said that he'd like to try to come to practices once in a while over the rest of the summer (implying we should keep doing group practices, of course) so maybe if we're lucky, we can get him to teach us the last batch of moves for First Ambush Fist one of those times. He did say that this form is somewhat harder and a little longer than the Second Ambush Fist form another group did and finished a couple weeks ago. Perhaps that's why they finished and we didn't.

Oh well, we'll finish it eventually and as noted, we still have plenty to practice. I'm not sure how many more updates I'll have for you between now and the fall semester. When the school year starts again, this should pick up, new students and all that. Until then though I think it's going to be just keep practicing what we've learned.

 

[Dronak]

I do have something else to mention now. Our teacher decided to come to practice yesterday because a few people e-mailed him and said they had questions or things they missed and needed to learn. He came towards the end of practice to go over things with us. I asked him about doing a tornado kick in the First Ambush Fist form my group was learning and he told us how to do it so we could practice it. Later he had us do the whole form as a group (just two of us yesterday, but the whole group is only like six people anyway) and decided to go ahead and teach us the last batch of moves for the form since they weren't too difficult. So we finished First Ambush Fist now. It wouldn't have been a really big deal if we had to wait until the fall to get the last batch of moves, but I am glad he decided to finish it off with us now before we start a new session next school year. Now we just have to keep practicing it and all our other forms and try to get better at doing all the moves.