A new look at 'hate crimes' in the UK...

[Bill Mattocks]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...be-protected-from-hate-crime-police-told.html

A new Hate Crime Guidance Manual has been handed to officers warning them that they must not ignore doggers being abused or verbally taunted in any way - as it can cause them to suffer from post traumatic stress.

For those not familiar with the term, a 'dogger' is someone who parks their car in a public parking lot and then engages in anonymous sex with strangers who walk up to their car, as I understand it. Although this behavior is illegal in the UK (as it is in the US), police have been warned to ensure that no one engages in 'hate crimes' against doggers by disparaging them or hurting their feelings.

Wow.

I thought we had some messed up laws in the USA, but this is over the top, yeah? I mean, in the UK, photographers are threatened with arrest for taking photos of public buildings, but doggers are protected from being made to feel bad about their public shag-a-thons. What a country!

 

[Omar B]

Quite a phenomenon huh? This dogging I mean. Anonymous sex, can't wrap my head around it, and more insane, it's in public!

 

[Tez3]

It should read Scotland not the UK, outdoor sex is not illegal, it's only illegal if it 'offends public decency' ie someone complains. Hate crimes means someone attacking the participants, assault is illegal full stop. These people aren't usually in car parks, it's in out of the way country places and is done by arrangement over the internet. No one is arrested for it if it's private which it is.

A modicum understanding of the law and the the situation here should be required before deciding the laws etc are stupid. The Police Federation has already said they don't need the book which is issued by politicians and pen pushers. It's just the pen pushers, ignore it, we do.

 

[Senjojutsu]

It should read Scotland not the UK, outdoor sex is not illegal, it's only illegal if it 'offends public decency' ie someone complains. Hate crimes means someone attacking the participants, assault is illegal full stop. These people aren't usually in car parks, it's in out of the way country places and is done by arrangement over the internet. No one is arrested for it if it's private which it is.

A modicum understanding of the law and the the situation here should be required before deciding the laws etc are stupid. The Police Federation has already said they don't need the book which is issued by politicians and pen pushers. It's just the pen pushers, ignore it, we do.

Hello,

This thread's subject reminded me of one such example of an American public servant over here down in South Carolina - one Roland Corning - it cetainly motivated me - to always be prepared - JUST IN CASE I SHOULD GET SO LUCKY: :xtrmshock :lol:

http://www.thestate.com/2009/10/28/1002279/state-official-roland-corning.html

"An assistant state attorney general was stopped in his car by a Columbia police officer Monday on suspicion of illegal activity, identified himself as an employee of the attorney general's office, and was not charged with a crime.

... Wines wrote in his report that two people were in the car - Corning and an unnamed 18-year-old female, an "employee of Platinum Plus Gentlemen's Club." Earlier, Wines had witnessed the Ford Explorer that Corning was driving pull into a secluded portion of Elmwood Cemetery that Wines had "received past complaints in ref. to illegal activity, i.e. sex acts and drug abuse," Wines wrote in the report.​

... The search revealed a sex enhancement drug and some sex toys. According to the report, Corning told Wines he had a prescription for the medication and the other items were always in the car "just in case."

 

[Tez3]

Arresting doggers isn't high on the list of police officers priorities, it's simply not a problem. Having sex in public is only a problem (and illegal) if it can be seen by the public, if the public want to join in, everyone is of the age of consenting, there's no problem. Open air sex has a short season here with our weather though. In Scotland where this story comes from I doubt many people ever have sex outdoors! shame really, there's a lot to said for it :wink1:

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Arresting doggers isn't high on the list of police officers priorities, it's simply not a problem. Having sex in public is only a problem (and illegal) if it can be seen by the public, if the public want to join in, everyone is of the age of consenting, there's no problem. Open air sex has a short season here with our weather though. In Scotland where this story comes from I doubt many people ever have sex outdoors! shame really, there's a lot to said for it :wink1:

Be that as it may, I do not think that being opposed to the lovely sport of 'dogging' rises to the level of a 'hate crime', which was the thrust (no pun intended) of the article. I do not think a person who dislikes dogging or doggers ought to be arrested for 'hating' them. I do not think they deserve special protected status.

This 'hate crime' thing is getting out of hand. It's a hate crime to commit a crime based on hatred in the USA based on several things, such as race or religion, and sometimes on gender or sexual orientation. I understand some of these, some less so, but at least I understand the point. I cannot understand why it would be a 'hate crime' to be against doggers.

Next it will be a 'hate crime' to dislike crime. Or lying cheating politicians. Or not liking the weather today. Yeah, everyone has feelings. But sometimes people just don't like what you do, even if it is legal and you think it's the best thing ever. Get over it. It's not a hate crime.

 

[Tez3]

Probably better to ask the Scots why they made it a 'hate' crime, it's not in England, more than likely they've caught some English at it. Maybe it was written in Gaelic first and that's what it was translated to, perhaps they feel assault for no other reason than hating something someone does is hateful.

It's not the opposition to dogging that's the problem it's the dragging them out of the cars and beating them up that is. That's a hate crime.

 

[Tez3]

Well that was fun lol! I googled dogging sites here and theres a lot of forums for people to discuss this subject. It seems however that the police aren't such a problem, though they do patrol certain areas known to be popular, they don't bother the people in the cars as long as nothing can be seen. The problem is youths looking to do violence, in one place several lads dragged the men in the cars out and beat them up believing them to be gay. In another place a man was stabbed in the neck, it would seem this pastime is somewhat hazaedous to your health in many ways. Most of the people involved in this seem to arrange now to meet up as the level of violence has gone up and they are increasingly looking for more isolated spots to meet.
I see nothing good about this activity but I also dont see any reason to beat them up because they do this.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

It's not the opposition to dogging that's the problem it's the dragging them out of the cars and beating them up that is. That's a hate crime.

One would think that assault is already a crime and does not need to be further defined as just pertaining to beating up doggers? I mean, is there an assault law to protect shop-owners, meter-readers, cross-eyed people who look at you funny, librarians who attempt collect late-book fines, and so on for every possible situation in which a person might be assaulted?

 

[CoryKS]

Are you telling me that there are people out there who can roll up into a parking lot and other people will just walk up to the car and offer them sex?!

*throws hands in the air*

I give up.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I see nothing good about this activity but I also dont see any reason to beat them up because they do this.

Nor do I. I was more thinking of a person seeing such activity in a park near their house, calling the police, and the police respond and nick the reporter for 'hate crimes' against doggers. Because doggers have feelings too. Good grief, as Charlie Brown says.

 

[Omar B]

I think I got it Bill! The "hate" in the "hate crime" comes in because those who are not getting laid in the whole deal hate those are ... dogging.

 

[Tez3]

Nor do I. I was more thinking of a person seeing such activity in a park near their house, calling the police, and the police respond and nick the reporter for 'hate crimes' against doggers. Because doggers have feelings too. Good grief, as Charlie Brown says.

That's not what's happening. Anyone reporting such things wouldn't be done by the police at all, the police do actually patrol many areas to stop the activity. The problem is gangs who find it amusing to beat up doggers, it seems there's a fair amount of homophobia going on because many of these couples are male. There's also straight couples who look for a male to join them, the lone male is often thought to be on the prowl for another male so again he will be beaten by anti gay thugs.

 

[elder999]

is someone who parks their car in a public parking lot and then engages in anonymous sex with strangers who walk up to their car, as I understand it. Although this behavior is illegal in the UK (as it is in the US), police have been warned to ensure that no one engages in 'hate crimes' against doggers by disparaging them or hurting their feelings.

Actually, according to this article, it's not exactly "illegal.":

So popular is the woodsy field below the ridge as a spot for gay sex (mostly during the day) and heterosexual sex (mostly at night) that the police have designated it a “public sex environment.”
Public sex is a popular — and quasi-legal — activity in Britain, according to the authorities and to the large number of Web sites that promote it. (It is treated as a crime only if someone witnesses it, is offended and is willing to make a formal complaint.) And the police tend to tread lightly in public sex environments, in part because of the bitter legacy of the time when gay sex was illegal and closeted men having anonymous sex in places like public bathrooms were routinely arrested and humiliated.

And:

Meanwhile, frazzled residents trade tales of woe: The half-dressed men who materialize from the shrubbery and theatrically pretend to be foraging for nuts and berries. The Internet reviews (“One site listed us as the No. 2 dogging site in Europe,” Ms. Perkins said wearily). The occasion when an unsuspecting motorist went for a bathroom break in the bushes, only to be surrounded by a crowd of eager men.

“It was the quickest pee he’d ever done in his life,” Ms. Paterson said.

:lfao: