A few informatioanl corrections

[Tgace]

"Or simply lay it down and let it die."

Yes that would be the "high road" would'nt it?:asian:

But sadly I think that deep down we "love" this kinda stuff. Enemy's, fueds, high-drama, etc. sometimes I feel ashamed with the eagerness that I have to see the latest posted here. Its like driving past a car wreck....

 

[loki09789]

Janulis,

" It seems to me that you can't make up your mind, though that may not be the case. So, here, let me help: You and Jerome have a relationship and are friends, but you want to stay out of the Tim and Jerome issue, and you want to be viewed as an individual, not one of "Jeromes guys"."

No it is not the case, I am not a "Jerome guy" in the way that you are implying, as if we are all in concert to 'bring down the WMAA'.

Yes I support my instructor/friend and mentor. I support him for the reasons I listed in the previous thread. That does not make me a member of a flaming. So I wont go into repeating myself for someone who only wants to see what they want to see.

As far as me running over to Tim H after some of your postings to establish a neutral tone, wrong. My conversation with Tim is between Tim and I and the how and when of it is between us. Again, you have gone off half cocked.

Your sarcastic, tv lawyer technique of discussion where you 'aren't saying' something while you are saying something is tiring. Just say what you mean and don't be coy. If you have a personal problem with Jerome or anyone here, just say so with out all the attempted wit.

As far as having a problem with you, am I suppose to be inferring a threat to my personal safety here? Or a challenge? Was the capitilzation, which is internet code for shouting, suppose to an attempt to be intimidating?

Paul Martin

 

[arnisador]

First, Dr. Barber took on a thankless task with the Symposium, and no thanks is exactly what he is getting. Dr. Barber, thanks for trying to make this event work. I am certain it was a great deal of effort for little financial reward.

That having been said, I do want to say a few things. Let me be perfectly clear: I'm speaking for myself, not for MartialTalk and not for the WMAA.

Originally posted by DoctorB
The following are statements made by Bob Hubbard, which I find to be in error and in need of correction

There is a certain conceit in feeling that each misstatement must be corrected. Some of your corrections are surely important, but others are not. The derisive "Bobby" does not strengthen your points, though with all the hits you have been taking recently I cannot blame you for this indulgence.

We ARE NOT business associates!!!

I am not and never have been a distributor of the "Gunting" for Bram or Spyderco!

We seem to have issues of definition here. Hosting someone for a seminar means a business relationship but I would not necessarily describe it as being business associates--it depends. It sounds as though the Gunting was merely a matter of taking orders as part of hosting an event, which I would not consider being a distributor. Still, I believe that Dr. Barber must admit that in loudly trumpeting the benefits of the Gunting--and he made me a believer when he demonstrated it for me at the recent WMAA Camp--and his association with Bram Frank, he may have left that impression. I don't think it was an unreasonable conclusion for people to reach even if it was an inaccurate one, and it would have been rather more polite to say "I can see where you might think that given how frequently and positively I speak of it, but..." instead. After the many announcements and reviews of it you posted here, I certainly assumed you were part of Mr. Frank's network in some formal way.

I also attended his WMAA Camps in West Seneca in 2002 and 2003.
[...]
On the other hand I have attended two (2) WMMA Camps

Surely this is an exaggeration--I would say that you visited each. I don't recall you spending much time there in 2002 and don't believe you took the floor to work out; if memory serves, you spent parts of Sat. morning and afternoon at the Camp in 2003, including lunch, plus some time on the mat, and some time chatting with Dr. Gyi and others (myself included). Were you a registered attendee for both camps? Am I misremembering?

the World Martial Arts Hall of Fame

I don't see you listed at their site. (I checked some of the other URLs that Yahoo! found for this. I don't know which one is most current, but one went as far as 2001.) But then, as it says on the site: Because of our vast list of inductees, it is not uncommon to misspell or unknowingly leave a name out, and for this we sincerely apologize. To spell it out a bit more plainly, to be nominated is to be accepted. There are many fine martial artists recognized by this organization, but induction into this hall of fame is no accomplishment. I've said this just this plainly to some of their inductees before. Using this as a significant credential is enough to declare someone suspect in my eyes. It's one thing to list it buried in one's resume, another to use it to win arguments. I deduct points for that.

Well, well, well, here we go again, now it is about the "major" and minor organizations. The perception of the WMAA as a "major" organization is yours. It can certainly be shared by others, however that does not make it a fact and there are people who would disagree with you.

I must concur with PAUL--who are these people, and what yardsticks are they using? Lobachevskian? Objectively--by any reasonable standards--the WMAA (with which I am associated, for those who may not know) is headed by one of the six datus, has the plurality of North American clubs and events, has a European presence (as well as other countries), and is growing at an impressive rate. I can't see how someone could rate the WMAA as anything other than a major player.

I was available and I spoke with most of the people at the event, so if someone failed to open a discussion with me, they should stand up and accept the responsibility for their own mistake.

Dr. Barber has always been most willing to engage people in conversation at camps and seminars, in my experience.

That bias is showing through again, Bobby.

That may be true, but you consistently reduce Mr. Hubbard's motivations and views to fit what seems to be your one-dimensional view of him. Are any of us truly as simple as you paint Mr. Hubbard to be?


I have no opinion on your relationship with Mr. Kashino et al. I am put off by the deceptiveness of the "Norshadow" account, starting on Eskrima Digest and continuing here.

Was this a Modern Arnis event? I wasn't there. There are a few reasons for this, but this set of issues is one of the biggest:

Originally posted by Renegade
2. A fare amount of the instructors didn’t show. I have had personal contact with several of the instructors and I know of at least one of the instructors gave Jerome advance notice that they would not be attending the event, yet there was no information related to the potential clients. This could be considered false advertising.

3. There were 5 substitute instructors put in at the last minute. The people that filled in were not advertised on the bill. There wasn’t a need to ad anyone. Each of the instructors could have been given longer sessions. The participants were not given substitute instructors of the same caliber of the originally advertised instructors.

4. With the given schedule there was no way to see all of the instructors. There was no reason to have three sessions ruling simultaneously. Each instructor could have taught one session for everyone at the same time. With the time that was available and the amount of participants there was no reason to split the sessions.

Not only did many instructors bail, including those I most wanted to see, but not all of these cancellations were announced in a timely and forthright manner, it seems. As I had predicted--though not in public--the melt continued until very near to the event. The replacement instructors were of less interest to me (and recall that attending this event would have meant a 10-hour drive, each way, or a plane flight for me.) I have no doubt that they were all very high quality, but they were of less interest to me personally. There were other reasons I did not attend, but this was a big factor.

Was this a Modern Arnis event? I didn't attend and I haven't seen the DVDs, so I can only go by the instructor list and the descriptions of what was taught that have been posted here. In my opinion, a FMA fest in honour of Remy Presas' contributions to the FMA in America is a better description of what actually happened, even if that is not what was planned.

Dr. Barber, you stepped into the line of fire by hosting this event and now you are indeed taking fire, and for that you have my sympathy. However, there is also an extent to which you have made your own bed and must lie in it. Aspects of your conduct and hence your character have been called into question by your actions--and that's fair.

Is it worth continually rehashing this matter? No. We should move on. But as Tgace suggests, what we're doing is "only human nature after all," for better or, more likely, for worse.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by arnisador
Is it worth continually rehashing this matter? No. We should move on. But as Tgace suggests, what we're doing is "only human nature after all," for better or, more likely, for worse.

Okay, let's move on. Though I still want my $80!

 

[Rich Parsons]

Mr Barber,

I take exception with your comments here.

Originally Posted by doctorb
As for what I said at the Symposium and/or in my posts to this or any other forum, I will stand behind my words. There was no gamesmanship or one-up-manship at the Symposium. I said what I meant! If someone did not like it or disagreed with it, then they should have had the strength of their convictions to talk with me at the Symposium. That did not happen!!! I was available and I spoke with most of the people at the event, so if someone failed to open a discussion with me, they should stand up and accept the responsibility for their own mistake.

This may be true.

The next time you stage a demonstration, and try to play conductor I will interrrupt you and tell you are being silly and making a fool of yourself.

The next time you make racial and anti-semitic jokes on or off a college campus, I will interrupt you and tell you I disagree.

The next time I want to talk to you and you are getting visible upset and starring at a single person and mumbling that it was all their fault and that they had no right. I will stop you and tell you what I am really thinking.

So, yes it is all my fault that I did not stop you each and every time, and correct you or argue you with you in public about this and every litttle comment be it racial or insulting. Even when we spoke in semi-private, it was still touch and go, since all the other stuff going on was mostly the topic. Do, I need to give a play by play to everyone of what I saw of each person's reaction during their involvement?

So, yes it was my fault to try and behave in a public forum in person and not tell you face to face. Yes, it was my fault that I got upset, when anyone posted about the success and your great efforts to accomplish this thankless task.

Yet, I take exception to you implied comments.

I have not said all that I could say. I ask that we all just drop this now. For, I would not like to have to spend hours typing a blow by blow of the events, and what happened. It does not paint a positive picture.

So let us just say, AN Event occured. There were people there who taught Modern Arnis and other arts.

Some things happened that not everyone was happy with. Some public and some private. Life goes on. You see I cannot paint a rose colored review of this event. I had remained silent except when I felt I had to make a point or comment. And when I tried to be as polite as possible I was told I was not being positive enough and could I not just let it go.

So... ?????

What will it be? Do we declare war, and start calling each other names again, make claims about the other side, or those involved. I think enough negative has been said.

Just My opinion

 

[Rich Parsons]

To Martial Talk Members,

I, as A Member and also a Moderator, apologize to the Members of Martial Talk, I have tried to give great freedoms here to allow people to try to resolve these issues. This constant sniping is not positive nor is it Friendly Discussion, which is the intent of Martial Talk.


I am offically asking everyone to stop pushing the hot buttons, of people they know. Whether it be friend or foe.

This is not a warning, this is not a threat.

It is a request. Please.

With Respect to our Members
:asian:

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by loki09789
Janulis,

" It seems to me that you can't make up your mind, though that may not be the case. So, here, let me help: You and Jerome have a relationship and are friends, but you want to stay out of the Tim and Jerome issue, and you want to be viewed as an individual, not one of "Jeromes guys"."

No it is not the case, I am not a "Jerome guy" in the way that you are implying, as if we are all in concert to 'bring down the WMAA'.

Yes I support my instructor/friend and mentor. I support him for the reasons I listed in the previous thread. That does not make me a member of a flaming. So I wont go into repeating myself for someone who only wants to see what they want to see.

O.K. Martin, how about READING what I said carefully? I'll quote myself, "You and Jerome have a relationship and are friends, but you want to stay out of the Tim and Jerome issue, and you want to be viewed as an individual, NOT as one of "Jeromes guys."

Is what I said correct, or not? I am not trying 'see only what I want to see,' I am just trying to make sure I understand where you stand. So far, you have told me that I am wrong, but you have not been very clear on explaining where you stand. So, if I am not correct, then tell me how?

As far as me running over to Tim H after some of your postings to establish a neutral tone, wrong. My conversation with Tim is between Tim and I and the how and when of it is between us. Again, you have gone off half cocked.

Oh yea... I'm wrong, but you can't tell me how I am wrong because that's between you and Tim. Why all the cloak and dagger B.S.? Just say what you mean. Are you saying you DON'T want to remain nuetral, now?

Your sarcastic, tv lawyer technique of discussion where you 'aren't saying' something while you are saying something is tiring. Just say what you mean and don't be coy. If you have a personal problem with Jerome or anyone here, just say so with out all the attempted wit.

My god...have you been listening? Do you READ? Of course I have a personal problem with the way Jerome has been conducting himself. Duh..

When have I not said what I ment? That makes no sense. Your the one who continues to tell me that I am wrong about certain issues, and that I am incorrect on my assesment of where you stand, yet you have yet to clearly explain any of it. YOUR the one not saying what you mean. All you have said to me so far is that I have incorrestly assessed your position on the matter, yet you refuse to tell me what your position is. I am still waiting for an explaination.

As far as having a problem with you, am I suppose to be inferring a threat to my personal safety here? Or a challenge? Was the capitilzation, which is internet code for shouting, suppose to an attempt to be intimidating?

Paul Martin

The internet code for shouting is BECAUSE YOU AND CERTAIN OTHERS TEND TO NOT READ WHAT I SAY ACCURATELY. I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS A LITERACY PROBLEM, OR IF YOU SIMPLY JUST DON'T READ ENTIRE POSTS. I FIGURED IF I 'SHOUT,' THEN MAYBE...JUST MAYBE....YOU'LL READ AND UNDERSTAND ME.

Understand?

And don't try to twist this into me posing a challenge or a threat, when you know that I have done nothing of the sort.

PAUL

P.S. Your TV Lawyer comment was cute, but inaccurate. I am being as straight forward as anyone can be here...perhaps this straightforwardness is just something your not used too.

 

[Cruentus]

First, Dr. Barber took on a thankless task with the Symposium, and no thanks is exactly what he is getting. Dr. Barber, thanks for trying to make this event work. I am certain it was a great deal of effort for little financial reward.

Arnisador, I would actually love to give Dr. Barber at least that much credit, but I don't think I can.

I called Erie Community College today and I talked to there athletics department. I asked how much it would cost to rent out a gym for the weekend. The answer was $125 per hour. Then I asked, "what if I knew someone who was on staff. Can staff members get a discount." They weren't at liberty to say exactly, because it depends on a lot of factors, but they did say that staff can sometimes get the room for half or more off. Then I asked if it would be less to rent out in the summer; they said yes.

My point is, given the amount of people who were there, profit for the event was probably between $4,000 and $6,000 dollars. The range exists only because I don't know exactly who preregistered and who didd't. The room probably only costed him $1000 or less for the weekend, which I can speculate based off my phone conversation with the department. That means abour 3,000-5,000 or so ended up in Jeromes pocket. There were no flyers or mailing for the event. NO INSTRUCTORS WERE PAID. I don't even think Bram or Dieter had their flights partially covered.

It would have been difficult to fully compensate all the instructors who were present, given the vast amount who were there. However, 3-5K isn't bad for a weekend.

So, given this evidence, I can't congratulate Dr. Barber for the thankless act of hosting the 1st symposium. Not only is 3-5 thousand $$ not thankless, in my opinion, but I think that more people would be greatful if things were handled differently.

PAUL

 

[Cruentus]

Paul,

As I have told you, Jerome, Tim and anyone else who listens, I base my personal relationships on what happens between myself and the other party. It has nothing to do with business. One of my closest friends in the Modern Arnis world, Bram Frank, hasn't done a whole lot of business for me at all. So what COULD be isn't necessarily so. Business wise, you haven't done much for me either (you really should remedy that, you know ) and yet we get along quite fine.

Fair enough. I still consider it a business relationship given that $$ is involved somewhere along the lines, but I will vouch from my personal knowledge of you that you don't base personal relationships off of business. So your point is well taken sir, and I understand!


:asian:

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by Tgace
Just wondering...what is it going to take to resolve this issue? Public flogging, exile, cutting of elbow tendons so the practice of MA becomes impossible????? Theres a lot of "this issue must be resolved" talk going on here with no solutions offered.

Come on lay it out.

This is a darned good question, Tgace! The answer is quite simple. I'll explain what I'd like to see, and then I'll explain a more likely solution.

1. What I'd like to see: Jerome Barber gets online and publically apoligizes for his antics, and explains the situation. Then he vows to work really hard to resolve the conflict between himself and Tim, and at the very least, keep the conflict off the internet. Anyone involved in helping him will also apoligize. The apoligies would of course have to be sincere, not back handed.

I would be skeptical, and it would take me some time to trust him and those who support him, but I would at least lay off, knowing that at least some honest attempts to resolve a conflict are being made.

I doubt this will ever happend. So...

2. At the very least, keep the conflict off the internet. I have a list of ways to do this that I will be posting in a seperate thread soon titled: Conflict resolution - resolving conflicts and keeping arguements off the internet. I will list 10 ways to keep arguements off the net.

But the solution is simple: if the conflict between Tim and Jerome stays between Tim and Jerome and off public internet forums, then guess what? I won't have anything to say about the issue.

But I am really tired of the backhanded, biased, and underminding comments that are made by both Jerome and his "camp". All the little slams on me, Tim, the WMAA, or any of its members need to stop. And guess what....? Like an annoying little shadow, every time I even THINK that Jerome is at it again, I'll be calling him and all parties involved out.

So, I'll say it again, because I can't say it enough. IF JEROME AND HIS SUPPORTERS KEEP THE PERSONAL CONFLICTS OFF THE INTERNET, THERE WON'T BE A PROBLEM.

So, Tgace, you win a free beer if we ever run into each other for the key question of the day! I hope I answered adequetly.

PAUL :cheers:

 

[loki09789]

Janulis,

I would send this to your private email, but you don't have one listed on your profile.

I am only going to comment on three points:

First, there was so much mixed in with before your final statement about my relationship with Jerome that, honestly, I read it incorrectly. Your understanding on this point is now accurate.

Secondly, there is no cloak and dagger in my keeping a conversation between Tim H and I confidential. If Tim H feels that he wants to discuss it with you, that is fine with me, I didn't say anything there I would not stand behind. Since it has nothing to do with you, I don't feel it necessary to publicise a private conversation. If that undermines my validity on this point with you, oh well.

Finally, I am not twisting your words. I am asking what your purpose and intent was with that closing. If I was to see a conversation between two people who have the communication history we seem to have finish with that kind of language, I would wonder what the speaker's intent was.

What ever response you want to give, please do so privately.

My email is [email protected]

This is NOT an attempt to get the last word in, it is an attempt to respond to Rich Parson, Dan Anderson and other member commentary that it is taking up too much time and space.

Realistically, 'resolution' is too high a hope. I think the letting it die goal is the best for now. I have agreed to disagree, respectfully with other people in the past, I am willing to do so now.

Ultimately, we are all taking money out of each other's pockets because of the impression this stuff leaves in the eyes of potential students who will come across this stuff in the process of internet searching for teachers... and will avoid people incapable of avoiding such bickering. Not to mention the number of current practitioners who may pause because they don't want to show up to events because of the overflow from this stuff.

We are teachers and leaders of martial arts. That embodies self control bearing, and confidence. Bobby Taboada said that he offered advice to many of RP's inheritors. Basically he said to be confident in the quality of your art and your teaching. This bickering, ON ALL SIDES, doesn't seem to fit this quietly strong and simple advice.

Paul Martin.

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Hmm...Thats a lot to process there Jerm. I'll try and be brief though.

Concerning the Gunting:
I was under the impression that you were the distributor for it based on your enthusiiasm for it, and that several individuals had indicated that you were the contact person, not Bram. I will acept that I may have been misinformed. Who in the WNY area should one contact if one is interested in the Gunting and its related trainer?

Concerning MY attendance at your events:
I'll be perfectly honest here. Some of them I was interested in, some not. Cash being as tight as it has been, I am forced to pick and choose which events I attend. So, if I have to choose between events that are within my own organizations, and those outside, my cash goes initially to those within the group within the areas of interest to me.

Hmm...actually Jerm.... I did attend..or rather pop in n say hello to a few folks. at at least 2 of your events. 1 was at ECC North, the other was something with Dan Anderson at ECC South. No, I didn't pay, but I did stop by to show support. I think (though I may be wrong) I even posted a message concerning the ECC-N event. (I believe I met Guro Muhammad and his wife there.)

Concerning Why the interest in Kelly?
To settle a few past misunderstandings face to face. Now, if you brought him in for a seminar, would I attend? I'd at the very least stop in for a bit to chat...purhaps shoot some pics and do a write up for the magazine. Would I pay for the event? It all depends. Cost, available funds, and other issues. Would I participate as a paying member if time and money were available? Probably.

Concerning Bias, "Old Boy Clubs", etc:
-Everyone- is biased in some way.

Concerning
I did not say that. Do not put words into my mouth Jerm.

Concerning no gamemanship:
Right Lamont. There was none at all. You were setup by the evil Tim and his insane plot to rule the world. (/sarcasm)

Jerome, You can misquote me, take things out of context, add in the leading questions, etc. The fact simply remains that you got caught playing games which tarnished an event that had great potential. Now, no matter how much you try, it will forever carry the black mark of "NorShadow".

I will agree with you in the end however.

It is fractured. But out of the fractures will come unity and cooperation in time...as the wounds heal. As to me, I simply train, and will continue to bang sticks, roll, spar or learn with and from anyone who is willing to share with me. Purhaps Jerm, you and I should get on the mats together sometime. We both might learn a few things.

(And no, thats not a threat....just an invitation to share, somewhere down the road when all this BS is behind us all.)

Ok, Bob, lets agree to disagree on some things. That is never a problem for me because sometimes disagreements reveal new information for consideration.

The WNY Gunting Distributor for Spyderco is Michael Carvelli. Email him at [email protected].

Attendance at events is always a matter of interest and funding.

I have a real problem with the notion of dropping in to say hello as a signal of support. I strongly discourage that with my students. Go to the event or stay away is how my students are instructed. If I were able to bring Datu kelly or anyone else to town, dropping in would not help me to pay him would it?

If you wanted to make arrangements to meet with him or any other instructor whom I would bring to Buffalo, outside of the seminar site, before or after the event, I would be happy to assist in getting you and that person together - but not at the seminar/camp.

Actually, Bob, one of the two white boys writing as Lamont, says that I should say hello for him and he would love to have the opportunity to have a training exchange with you. There is quite a bit more to that computer ID but it bothers you guys more than it does me. Like the Symposium, I have moved beyond that, I have let it go; I am working on a new program for Sunday, April 4 2004.

Getting together on the mats would be fun. I do not harbor grudges over disagreements.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by PAUL
Arnisador, I would actually love to give Dr. Barber at least that much credit, but I don't think I can.

I called Erie Community College today and I talked to there athletics department. I asked how much it would cost to rent out a gym for the weekend. The answer was $125 per hour. Then I asked, "what if I knew someone who was on staff. Can staff members get a discount." They weren't at liberty to say exactly, because it depends on a lot of factors, but they did say that staff can sometimes get the room for half or more off. Then I asked if it would be less to rent out in the summer; they said yes.

My point is, given the amount of people who were there, profit for the event was probably between $4,000 and $6,000 dollars. The range exists only because I don't know exactly who preregistered and who didd't. The room probably only costed him $1000 or less for the weekend, which I can speculate based off my phone conversation with the department. That means abour 3,000-5,000 or so ended up in Jeromes pocket. There were no flyers or mailing for the event. NO INSTRUCTORS WERE PAID. I don't even think Bram or Dieter had their flights partially covered.

It would have been difficult to fully compensate all the instructors who were present, given the vast amount who were there. However, 3-5K isn't bad for a weekend.

So, given this evidence, I can't congratulate Dr. Barber for the thankless act of hosting the 1st symposium. Not only is 3-5 thousand $$ not thankless, in my opinion, but I think that more people would be greatful if things were handled differently.

PAUL

Paul,

You have asked a couple of good questions and got some good answers, however, you did not get ALL of the facts. My expenses were covered and there was not a profit. I did not get a "faculty/ staff discount" because the Symposium was not a "school function or program". During the academic year we can get the discount because there are martial arts classes running. There are no summer martial arts classes.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by DoctorB

Actually, Bob, one of the two white boys writing as Lamont, says that I should say hello for him and he would love to have the opportunity to have a training exchange with you. There is quite a bit more to that computer ID but it bothers you guys more than it does me. Like the Symposium, I have moved beyond that, I have let it go; I am working on a new program for Sunday, April 4 2004.

Getting together on the mats would be fun. I do not harbor grudges over disagreements.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

Jerome,

I mentioned the suspension and banning of the Lamont Norshadow account to a few people who were involved with this issue. And with the exception of Richard Curren getting visible upset for being even remotely involved, which I excused, you were the only one who was upset. Tim K was not surprised and expected the closing of the account. The other White Boy as you say, did not even understand what I was saying. In my opinion from reading people all the time, and judging reactions, this person did not care and did not mind, and like I aid had no understanding oh accounts or closing them or banning them at all. His look was blank.

Now your look was upset. You were visible shaking with anger. You were talking about and to people who were across the room. While your were looking at him. The person in question, by the way, who could not hear you. I was actually afraid you might do something stupid at that moment. I have faced many a person whom for one reason or another was not right. Drugs, blood chemistry, grief, anger, etc, ... , and that is how I read you. I have been stabbed, beat, shot at, and attacked by multiple aggressors, dealt with bad guys and unknowns. I would stake my life on what I read on your face, in your body language that day and from your comments. I have done it before, and I am here today.

You say it is done. Then it is done. Do not bring it up. Do not mention it. Do not make a snide remark about you have moved on while implying others have not, and others involved wish to meet. The same person who wanted to demonstrate his Largo Mano on an individual. I took your comments about the person you were staring at not being on the floor to be the recipient of the Largo Mano, as you visible and audible proof that you wanted someone to get hurt or at least shown up. I for would do not like how you phrased this, given the data I have on this complete situation.

Do I Need to go into details of your glee, and smiling face while you were pointing out your two students, as the posters of Lamont Norshadow. Or of your enjoyment of the orchestration of the event and it unfolding while the audience watched? Do, I need to go into details about you being upset about Paul walking out to take the floor for the demonstration of Largo Mano?

Do, you want my review of the demonstration?


Or should we all just let it lie. Should we like Paul Martin and Tgace and myself and even Paul Janulis have mentioned at one time or another let it be dropped? It should be dropped.

Or are you going to try to get the last word. It is ok, if you play real nice. You see you have insulted many times about this board not given you a chance to present you points. Yet you try dictate policy to me on and off the board. You try to intimidate me and the members of this board. So, I take excpetion to anything might be implied.

Now as it is late, and I need sleep for work, and I am tired of this. I am going to sleep.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by DoctorB
Paul,

You have asked a couple of good questions and got some good answers, however, you did not get ALL of the facts. My expenses were covered and there was not a profit. I did not get a "faculty/ staff discount" because the Symposium was not a "school function or program". During the academic year we can get the discount because there are martial arts classes running. There are no summer martial arts classes.

Jerome,

This maybe true.

Yet at the Univeristies I have attended and worked at. The faculty and the students can rent out the building at a much lower rate then the general public. I guess this is not one of your perks? Sorry to here that. I do hope your other benefits compensate for this.

I also know that much of the cost is due to the person(s) who run the building, security and workers who clean, etc, ..., . Yet, if you are a student or staff of the college/university, you get the discount in particular if there is another event causing the building to be open, such as a swim meet.

Now, do I have the right to ask to see your books? No I do not. Yet, I paid your price, and have the right to wonder where the money went.

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by DoctorB
Paul,

You have asked a couple of good questions and got some good answers, however, you did not get ALL of the facts. My expenses were covered and there was not a profit. I did not get a "faculty/ staff discount" because the Symposium was not a "school function or program". During the academic year we can get the discount because there are martial arts classes running. There are no summer martial arts classes.

O.K...

I'd like to be able to say, "O.K., man, no problem.." and drop it, but it still isn't seeming right to me. I would say at the very least, you had 20 paying customers at the event. This is an UNDERESTIMATION. I am going to quote them at the Earliest Registration rate, $195 a piece. This is an extreme underestimation because you and I both know that most did not register between February and April prior to the event to get that rate, and many paid the $295 at the door. Regardless,
195 X 20 = $3,900. IF you didn't get a discount for the room AT ALL, which I still can't understand given the many factors mentioned, then it would have costed you 8 hours on Saturday, and even though we were there for maybe 4-5 hours on Sunday, we'll just say 8 hours on Sunday to make up the difference for anything I might have missed.

Given these #'s, which are extreme estimations in your favor, 16 hours of time at $125 per hour is $2000.

So...at the most, the room cost $2,000. At the least, the event made $3,900. In the worst case scenario possible, you pocketed $1900.

Now, please understand that I am in business, and I don't fault anyone for making $$ (although, I would have thrown a few hundred to at least the bigger names who showed for the event, but that's just my generousity). I don't fault you for making a profit on an event. Hell, hosting an event is a lot of work and a lot of headaches; so you SHOULD make $$ doing it.

My problem, here, is that it appears that your not telling the truth.

Well, I don't know what else to say regarding the issue. I'll tell you what...I'll drop it if you will, and we can leave it at that.

PAUL

 

[Cruentus]

I know you asked me to respond privately, which I have a problem with. The only computer I use is my work one, where my e-mails can be used for business purposes only.

I only check my personal hotmail account once every week and a half or so, so I don't put it on display here like I used too.

So....I'll P.M. you here, if that will sufice!

:asian:

 

[Cruentus]

O.K....I have a question, that I think needs to be asked at this point.

Collectively, what can we all do to resolve this issue that we have been having, so we can all at least co-exist again without feuding. I would like to here your answer. What are your terms? What do you need me and others to do so we can stop the sniping and back and forth? Sure...you and Tim have a lot to work out, which may never be resolved through the internet or through any other means, but what measures could we take to at least keep the disagreements OFF the internet?

I'd like to hear your input.

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Please, keep the discussion polite and respectful.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[DoxN4cer]

Originally posted by PAUL
Let me make myself clear on one thing here. IF ANYONE of my friends gets physically hurt because of your screwing around, Dr. Barber, I will hunt you and all guilty parties involved down, and I will pummel you all until you are hospitalized. The only thing that would stop me from doing this would be legal action; not against me but against whomever is guilty of the assult.

Please understand that I am not going against the rules of Martial Talk here by making a threat or a challange; I am just telling you in advance what is going to happend. Remember, I am only a 6 hour drive away.

It sure looks an awful lot like a threat.

Why not just make the six hour drive and handle it on your own? Is that something you really want to do? Would you be satisfied then? Frankly, I don't think that you would do it.

Collectively, to close the issue; we should all shut the hell up and let Tim and Jerome handle their business on their own rather than continue the harrassment, finger pointing and name-calling that perpetuates the whole thing. By running off at the mouth you aren't pushng the issue into closure. You're drawing it out and making it bigger. The pot-stirring troll routine is getting old.

Let it go.

Tim Kashino