A Disturbing Attack

[Stac3y]

I dont have kids, but in todays world, none of this should be surprising. Not taking a shot at you or anything, just saying that compared to other things that go on, this is relationship is probably on the mild end of things.

Then again, some people could look at this and say that 4yrs isnt that big of a deal.

Surprising, no; appalling, yes. And I'm not taking a shot at you, either, but GOOD parents don't allow 11 year olds to date. And the 4 years between 11 and 15 are definitely a big deal. Look at it this way: an 11 year old is in elementary school. A 15 year old is a sophomore in high school. It's NOT the same as a 24 year old dating a 28 year old.

 

[Stac3y]

It’s strange how we have no problem letting our kids see violence in video games and movies but show someone a nipple and the world implodes…

I don't get that at all, myself. I have no problem with my kids seeing nudity. I have a problem with them seeing films that imply that there's uncommitted or "cheap" sex and that that's okay. I have a problem with them seeing violent films. I restrict what they watch and read, and discuss "iffy" parts of it with them, to reinforce the values I want them to learn.

I’ve worked with many people who totally amaze me on what they let their young kids do, and when they get into trouble with the law they shrug their shoulders and say, “what are you going to do?” How about you become a F***** parent and set boundaries for your kids?

QFT.

To all these people, it’s all normal. If you’re in the middle class, and above, it’s aberrant behaviour. They see no value in education, they think we keep our kids sheltered from the real world, they think that it’s a dog eat dog world and their going to take their share.

Do we have a right to tell them how to raise their kids?

Funny thing about this is, that our "sheltered" kids are better suited to succeed in this "dog eat dog" world. We don't have a right to tell them how to raise their kids, but when their child-rearing becomes criminal activity (shoplifting, doing drugs, etc. with their kids), the authorities have a right to step in.

 

[MJS]

Surprising, no; appalling, yes. And I'm not taking a shot at you, either, but GOOD parents don't allow 11 year olds to date. And the 4 years between 11 and 15 are definitely a big deal. Look at it this way: an 11 year old is in elementary school. A 15 year old is a sophomore in high school. It's NOT the same as a 24 year old dating a 28 year old.

While it may not be PC, in todays world, an 11yo having a bf or gf is probably not frowned upon, afterall it is 2010. Interestingly enough, I was reading an article in my local paper today. The article was talking about a family losing their home due to some issue with their mortgage company. The part that caught my eye, and I thought was fitting for this thread, is the fact that the wife is 30yrs old, the husband is 45yrs old, and they have an 11yo son. See anything interesting in those numbers?

 

[grydth]

The original story happened in Florida, but last year in North Syracuse, NY there was a very similar case. Single mother had grounded 13 year old daughter, then had to go and get her out of a party the kid had snuck off to. When mom went to bed, the kid doused the home with gasoline and set fire to it.

As I recall, though she was charged as an adult she was sentenced to next to nothing and the family came out and defended her as "a good girl".

 

[MJS]

The original story happened in Florida, but last year in North Syracuse, NY there was a very similar case. Single mother had grounded 13 year old daughter, then had to go and get her out of a party the kid had snuck off to. When mom went to bed, the kid doused the home with gasoline and set fire to it.

As I recall, though she was charged as an adult she was sentenced to next to nothing and the family came out and defended her as "a good girl".

Isn't that something, but oh, so typical. Amazing how someone could have their child do something bad, yet the family turns a blind eye to it.

When I was little, my mom, would always fight tooth and nail for her kids. But...she'd always listen to both sides of the story. If I was in the wrong, she never made any excuses for my actions, and of course, there was always hell to pay.

 

[teekin]

Hopefully something gets done, before something like this happens again. Charged as an adult, charged as a minor....either way, IMHO, this girl needs to be locked up somewhere. Regarding the help...well, I'm a firm believer that help is a 2-way street. If this girl doesnt want help, then trying to force it on her, will be pointless.[/quote]

Not nessesarily. That depends on how far those who are suppose to be helping this girl are willing to go and why they are helping. Sometimes the only thing that is left is confinement and forced help. If the reasons are for the child's own good and the family are willing to do What Ever is Nessessary Period. Full Stop. No backing down. Get Better or Die in there she will put in the effort. If the proffesionals she works with are Good, Committed and not just putting in time she will get the help she needs. So, it depends.
lori

 

[MA-Caver]

What really made my mouth drop was when I saw this part:

"Police spokeswoman Elizabeth Watts said a motive was "probably just typical teenage angst."

I agree that it's total :BSmeter: at the "teen angst" the girl is ELEVEN and not even old enough to qualify to be a TEENAGER which IMO begins at THIRTEEN ... she had problems to be sure and a 15 year old bf is one of them. If she was 13 and he 15 then I'd say nothing except that dating should be only at school until she's old enough to go out with him in a couple years or three.
Still... to want to burn her own mother alive (probably fed by ideas provided by the bf) is a sign of serious trouble at home.

Hope all parties in this tragedy get help.

 

[MJS]

Hopefully something gets done, before something like this happens again. Charged as an adult, charged as a minor....either way, IMHO, this girl needs to be locked up somewhere. Regarding the help...well, I'm a firm believer that help is a 2-way street. If this girl doesnt want help, then trying to force it on her, will be pointless.[/quote]

Not nessesarily. That depends on how far those who are suppose to be helping this girl are willing to go and why they are helping. Sometimes the only thing that is left is confinement and forced help. If the reasons are for the child's own good and the family are willing to do What Ever is Nessessary Period. Full Stop. No backing down. Get Better or Die in there she will put in the effort. If the proffesionals she works with are Good, Committed and not just putting in time she will get the help she needs. So, it depends.
lori

When I worked for Corrections, I was amazed at the number of inmates that would leave the block to go to Bible study, AA, drug programs, etc. I often thought to myself, "I wonder how many are really seeking help, and how many are just using this as an excuse to get an hour or two of free time, so to speak. Did they really "find God" as they like to say? When they get out, are they really going to stay clean or are they going to go right back to using and/or selling drugs?

I remember talking to one young kid. I think he was in his early 20s. I was doing my cell checks and stopped to chat with him. He told me that he was getting out at the end of the week. He wasn't one who gave me any issues, so I wished him well and told him I hoped things worked out for him. Well, a few weeks later, who do I run into? Yup, the same kid. I asked him what happened and he said that he got mixed up with the wrong crowd again. A quarter of me actually felt bad for the kid, but the other 3/4 was thinking, "Why am I not surprised to see you here again!"

Much like a Martial Arts teacher, the pros who deal with these guys are not miracle workers. If I could've snapped my fingers and made my students know all of the material I was teaching, inside and out, I'd have the most successfull school in the world, but reality is, I'm not a miracle worker. I was asked all the time by parents, "Why isn't Johnny doing well? What can I do?" I'd tell them that I was doing my part, which was teaching. They (the parents and child or just the student if they were an adult) needed to do their part, which was train on their own. I can't help them, if they're not helping themselves.

 

[teekin]

Ahhhh MJS we are talking at crossed purposes. I am speaking of a locked down facility. You don't get to go out to bible study down the block, so sorry. You don't get to go out period. No more chances, no more "I will be good, come on, trust me". No NO NO. End all the BS and either the kid commits to getting the help or gets kicked to the curb. MOst want the help but need to be backed into a corner with no way out but to accept it. Then again, cases vary. Sometimes it just doesn't matter what anyone does. Some people seem bent on riding that handcart straight into hell.
lori

 

[seasoned]

Surprising, no; appalling, yes. And I'm not taking a shot at you, either, but GOOD parents don't allow 11 year olds to date. And the 4 years between 11 and 15 are definitely a big deal. Look at it this way: an 11 year old is in elementary school. A 15 year old is a sophomore in high school. It's NOT the same as a 24 year old dating a 28 year old.

Agreed, 15 is 1 year away from driving, where 11 is just a year away from Barbie. This may be the norm in some parts of the country, but maybe this is part and parcel of some of the problems that plague, our day and age. Sorry, I digress.

 

[Carol]

Is 4 years a trivial amount of time?

Ask someone that put themselves through college.

 

[MJS]

Ahhhh MJS we are talking at crossed purposes. I am speaking of a locked down facility. You don't get to go out to bible study down the block, so sorry. You don't get to go out period. No more chances, no more "I will be good, come on, trust me". No NO NO. End all the BS and either the kid commits to getting the help or gets kicked to the curb. MOst want the help but need to be backed into a corner with no way out but to accept it. Then again, cases vary. Sometimes it just doesn't matter what anyone does. Some people seem bent on riding that handcart straight into hell.
lori

Sorry for the confusion. I think you misunderstood. When I said 'block' I was not talking about leaving the facility to go to another area. I was talking about the housing area that they were in, or the slang term, leaving the block. So, yes, I too, am talking about the locked facility. The State of Ct. has 3 pre-sentence facilities. Those are considered jails, while the rest are considered prison. I worked in the jail. They are all still one in the same with the CT DOC. So, it was very possible for me to see different people all the time. It was a revolving door. They would provide me with a list, during roll call, of the inmates in my block/unit/housing area, whatever you'd like to call it, that were going to programs that night. Sometimes the list was 2 pages! LOL! At the set time, the inmates would leave and simply go to another area in the facility. After the end of the program, they'd all come back.

I saw first hand, the results that these classes were having on the inmates. Some actually did make it a point to improve, while others, as I said, were using it as nothing more than an excuse to get out for a little while. It was nothing more than them milking the system.