2 Hour Intro to Wing Chun Class

Gerry Seymour

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I would recommend don't charge anything per month and don't teach martial arts as a money making enterprise.

If you do need to charge to cover your time and/or premises then charge by attendance. Monthly charges are a big turn off to many people, and they make you a business, which changes the way you teach.
Charging anything makes you run like a business, and that's not necessarily going to change the way anyone teaches. And many of us actually expect monthly charges. I don't want to have to pay every time I walk into a school if I have a choice to pay for the whole month in advance.

Those differences may all be due to cultural differences. In the US, charging by the month is the norm.
 

Hazardi172

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Charging anything makes you run like a business, and that's not necessarily going to change the way anyone teaches. And many of us actually expect monthly charges. I don't want to have to pay every time I walk into a school if I have a choice to pay for the whole month in advance.

Those differences may all be due to cultural differences. In the US, charging by the month is the norm.

In Europe also the norm, but not popular with some learners who tend to be worth teaching. Running like a health club attracts a certain tyoe of student. Running ike a low cost boxing gym or a personal contact based on trust attracts a different type.

Charging to cover time and/or rental is not running like a business, it is covering costs only.
 

Gerry Seymour

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In Europe also the norm, but not popular with some learners who tend to be worth teaching. Running like a health club attracts a certain tyoe of student. Running ike a low cost boxing gym or a personal contact based on trust attracts a different type.

Charging to cover time and/or rental is not running like a business, it is covering costs only.
I know of very few people around here who don't prefer monthly. My students have the choice, and they choose monthly unless they're only going to make a couple of classes that month. Mind you, I charge less on a monthly basis. I can afford to, because the math to cover expenses is easier and more consistent. That's the same math a business has to do to cover profit margin, a non-profit has to do to cover salaries, and a hobbyist has to do to cover expenses.
 

JowGaWolf

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I would recommend don't charge anything per month and don't teach martial arts as a money making enterprise.

If you do need to charge to cover your time and/or premises then charge by attendance. Monthly charges are a big turn off to many people, and they make you a business, which changes the way you teach.
o_O
How do you charge by attendance?
 

JowGaWolf

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Charging to cover time and/or rental is not running like a business, it is covering costs only
So how will you have enough money to invest in training equipment and other things for students if you are only covering costs? If your rent is $100 and you are only covering costs then you can't afford to invest into the training beyond $100
 

JowGaWolf

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Folks can pay by the class. They show up with cash-in-hand for the day. Most of the schools I know would call it a "mat fee".
ohhhhhhh.. mmm. nope. definitely wouldn't work where I live. I would actually lose students.
 

Hazardi172

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ohhhhhhh.. mmm. nope. definitely wouldn't work where I live. I would actually lose students.

Why would you lose students by removing charges when they don't attend class and by removing pay in advance?
 

Gerry Seymour

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ohhhhhhh.. mmm. nope. definitely wouldn't work where I live. I would actually lose students.
It's a good solution for folks who are going to be out most of a month (something that happens regularly with my students), but nobody seems to be interested in it otherwise. I could see someone considering it when they start, but the cost for a month is the same as the cost of 5 classes, so they lose money if they come in twice a week for 3 weeks. I've considered letting folks buy a 10-class or 20-class package, to get a price similar to the monthly cost. Right now it would be too difficult to keep track of. If I ever get that database program to a beta stage, that kind of tracking would be part of what I'd have available.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Why would you lose students by removing charges when they don't attend class and by removing pay in advance?
Most folks attend 6-12 classes per month. The monthly fee is usually lower than that many classes of individual class payments. And people who haven't paid in advance are statistically less likely to show up for a class, which makes class planning less predictable.
 

Hazardi172

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I know of very few people around here who don't prefer monthly. My students have the choice, and they choose monthly unless they're only going to make a couple of classes that month. Mind you, I charge less on a monthly basis. I can afford to, because the math to cover expenses is easier and more consistent. That's the same math a business has to do to cover profit margin, a non-profit has to do to cover salaries, and a hobbyist has to do to cover expenses.

This doesn't change the fact that different payment methods attract different kinds of people.

And if you have students that you trust and who are committed, there is no reason not to charge by attendance. Monthly only necessary in an impersonal situation where you are unsure if people will turn up when they say they will.
 

Gerry Seymour

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This doesn't change the fact that different payment methods attract different kinds of people.

And if you have students that you trust and who are committed, there is no reason not to charge by attendance. Monthly only necessary in an impersonal situation where you are unsure if people will turn up when they say they will.
My experience is that, in the US, pay-per-class attracts students who don't come on a regular basis.

And, yes, there are many reasons not to use pay-per-attendance. I've outlined some. Here are a few I can think of (some are repeats): people attend more regularly when they pay in advance (better for their learning), more predictable math (less need to focus on it), it's typically less expensive for regular students.

If the monthly is the same price as the per-class, and folks are planning to come on a regular basis, there's really no benefit to them in paying on a per-class basis. The only advantage in a per-class basis is for those who won't be attending regularly. That's why I have that option. You seem convinced that folks would much prefer to pay by the class, but at one time I had a per-class that was 1/7 of the monthly (meaning if they missed just one class a month, they'd do as well or better with the per-class rate). Folks only went with the per-class rate on months when they didn't know if they'd be attending, or if they knew for a fact they were only going to be in for 2 weeks (maximum 4 classes). Clearly, they preferred the monthly payment. It's easier for them, and they will often choose it even if it's a few bucks more expensive.

Because the monthly rate is easier for me, I actually make it a really good deal, compared to the per-class rate.
 

Hazardi172

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people who haven't paid in advance are statistically less likely to show up for a class, which makes class planning less predictable.

I would say the opposite is the case. Lots of peope start payment plans for gyms, leasure activities and martial arts and never or rarely attend. This is because they like the idea of it but don't like the reality. Later they cancel their payment.

If you work the opposite way around, make the class so that only committed people are likely to be interested, and make the charge (to cover costs) based on personal trust making it obvious that attendance is necessary, then I think much more likely to get a group of self motivated students really interested in learning who are prepared to go the extra mile. Obviously not an option if you are trying to make money from teaching, but I think that is a bad idea anyway.
 

Gerry Seymour

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I would say the opposite is the case. Lots of peope start payment plans for gyms, leasure activities and martial arts and never or rarely attend. This is because they like the idea of it but don't like the reality. Later they cancel their payment.

If you work the opposite way around, make the class so that only committed people are likely to be interested, and make the charge (to cover costs) based on personal trust making it obvious that attendance is necessary, then I think much more likely to get a group of self motivated students really interested in learning who are prepared to go the extra mile. Obviously not an option if you are trying to make money from teaching, but I think that is a bad idea anyway.
I don't know where you're getting your ideas. Mine comes from research by both businesses and psychologists.

You seem convinced there's something bad about monthly pay. Yet committed students nearly universally prefer it around here. Perhaps there's a bit of a cultural difference between your experience and mine?
 

Gerry Seymour

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Obviously not an option if you are trying to make money from teaching, but I think that is a bad idea anyway.
I'm not sure why you think it's a bad idea for someone to make money teaching. They do it with science classes every day.
 

Hazardi172

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If the monthly is the same price as the per-class, and folks are planning to come on a regular basis, there's really no benefit to them in paying on a per-class basis.

It is always beneficial in any financial transaction to pay later rather than earlier. Keeping your own money in your own pocket for the maximum time is advantageous. If your students don't recognise this then I would say they are not like people I have experience of :)
 

Gerry Seymour

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It is always beneficial in any financial transaction to pay later rather than earlier. Keeping your own money in your own pocket for the maximum time is advantageous. If your students don't recognise this then I would say they are not like people I have experience of :)
Not unless they are earning interest on it. And if they pay less by paying early, there's zero advantage if they're going to spend the money eventually.

So, you're just convinced you know the reality here. I wasn't aware you ran a program in the US. Or lived in the US. Or had done the research on how people react to pricing and how payments affect attendance.
 

Hazardi172

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I don't know where you're getting your ideas. Mine comes from research by both businesses and psychologists.

Experience ;)

You seem convinced there's something bad about monthly pay. Yet committed students nearly universally prefer it around here. Perhaps there's a bit of a cultural difference between your experience and mine?

It isn't sensible to pay in advance if you can avoid it.
 

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