Would you train under a fat and out of shape JKD guy

Discussion in 'JKD / Jeet Kune Do' started by James Kovacich, Oct 7, 2009.

  1. Gruenewald

    Gruenewald Orange Belt

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    My wrestling coach through high school was a short, stalky, balding man. Like, he was almost literally round and he had a bad back and he couldn't see five feet without his glasses on. But damn, he knew SO much. He's far and away one of the most well-respected coaches in all of Canada. Great man, great teacher. He's coached so many National Championship gold medalists and junior olympic medalists that it's unbelievable.
     
  2. eastnashvillemartialarts

    eastnashvillemartialarts White Belt

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    Keep in mind that Bruce Lee died young.
    He wouldn't have been able to keep up his training routine for long.

    That said, Instructors should be an example to students.
    They should be able to demonstrate techniques and not be out of breath after 30 seconds.

    They DONT however have to look like body builders and they don't have to be able to beat you up to be able to teach you something.
     
  3. Gruenewald

    Gruenewald Orange Belt

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    I believe that without the intense stress of being a movie star (combined with other issues) later in his life, he may very well have been able to maintain his work regiment. Introduction of drugs didn't help either. I still admire you, Bruce!
     
  4. MANOS: THE HANDS OF FATE

    MANOS: THE HANDS OF FATE Yellow Belt

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    I was introduced to Wing Chun by a gentleman who was out on permanent disability and had to walk with a cane. He often had to sit down and was a notorious chain smoker.

    After he showed me what he was capable of--I made him promise me that if he were ever to strike me in anger that he was to do so with his cane and NOT his hands. IMO the cane was more forgiving.

    I wish I were still training with him today.
     
  5. trexeden@yahoo.com

    trexeden@yahoo.com White Belt

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    [FONT=&quot]It is a challenge. I’ve interviewed some pretty high up JKD instructors. You can check out my interviews with them at http://www.JKDnewsletter.com.[/FONT]
     
  6. Hapkidoman

    Hapkidoman White Belt

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    There are so many different body types, many people can be very deceptive, they might look over weight and out of shape, but I have learned that you are making a big mistake if you underestimate anyone. I have had my but kicked by guys that I did not give much of a chance to, and conversly I have seen guy's that look to be very fit, not be very fast or have good timing. Bottom line is never judge a book by it's cover.
     
  7. The Ninja

    The Ninja White Belt

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    Look below
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011
  8. The Ninja

    The Ninja White Belt

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    In my life ive faced people that were very skilled in kung fu, ninjutsu, and even jkd ...and they were fat.

    This is 1 rule everyone that does any type of martial arts should know
    1. when facing any 1 u should never under estimate your opponent nor your teacher, sensei, or wut ever u call him/her.

    just like others ive seen people that were twice my size have skill, speed, and power.im fat but others know that u shoudnt think that is my weak point. Being fat sometimes cant be helped.

    So yes, i would go under a fat teacher because he will more than likely go beyond what u expect of him.
     
  9. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    great teacher

    in great shape

    great fighter


    now pick any 2, cuz more than likely? you will never see all 3 in the same person
     
  10. simplicity

    simplicity Green Belt

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    Never say never brother... ;-)
     
  11. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    But usually, it can be helped. the cause of weight gain is not a mystery and weight loss/prevention of weight gain is not rocket science. Nor do the vast majority of overweight people overweight due to medical conditions.

    Most 'suffer' from modern daily life, which has become increasingly sedentary as tasks which were once manual have become automated or can be performed while seated. Case in point; the basic act of answering the phone. When I was a kid, there was a phone upstairs and a phone downstairs. Each had a handset that was hardwired to the base. If the phone rang and I wasn't in the same room, I had to get up and walk if I wanted to answer it. Now, the cordless or a cell phone is handy in all homes. With the decline of print media, there are many who get their news from the web. That eliminates getting up and going to get the paper from either the doorstep or the box.

    Modern society changed very rapidly over the past thirty years, and so to has the ratio of availablilty of healthy foods vs. unhealthy foods. When I was growing up, you simply had to not over-do it and stay away from obvious junk food. Now, the junk is pervasive, and often masquerading as foods that are thought of as healthy.

    All of this makes watching one's weight trickier than it was thirty years ago.

    Thus, one may be 'fat' without being a glutton, lazy, or any of the other stereotypes that I have seen leveled against overweight people.

    The the question of what is meant by "fat" needs to be addressed; there is a huge difference between being twenty pounds overweight and being sixty pounds overweight. Or one hundred or more pound overweight.

    Since I don't base an instructor's ability to teach on what they look like, no they won't go beyond what I expect of them based on their appearance; I have no expectations based upon appearance. Short, tall, thin, fat, man, woman, I don't care.

    I select my instructors based mainly on three things:

    1. their ability to reasonably do what they are teaching correctly

    If you are teaching taekwondo or Shotokan and cannot do a basic turning kick correctly, that is a problem. If the instructor has an effective way of addressing that problem, it can be overcome... but if you have allowed yourself to get to a point where you cannot do one of the most basic techniques of your art correctly, then you should take some time away from teaching and address your basic training issues. Because chances are, it isn't your weight that is preventing you from correctly performing the kick.

    I realize that a guy who's lost limbs due to injury or has either severe arthritis or has suffered some debilitating injury may not be able to do such a technique at all and will need to overcome that challenge in some way. That is not what I am talking about.

    Even if you cannot kick at head level any longer, you should be able to execute the basics of the kick correctly.

    2. their ability to instruct
    The ability to teach others is unrelated to one's physical condition, and barring the inability to demonstrate foundational techniques (which can be overcome), conditioning is unrelated to teaching ability. Some of the finest technicians cannot effectively impart their skills to a beginning student. It could be a lack of patience. It could be an inability to effectively communicate. Or an inability to translate what they do into a lesson.

    3. their teaching style.
    This is more subjective, as a teaching style may be very effective for one type of student and a disaster for another. So you could have one and two in place, but number three is whether or not the instructor is right for you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2011
  12. WCman1976

    WCman1976 Orange Belt

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    I watched a video of one of Bruce Lee's earliest students, Jesse Glover. He isn't going to be on the cover of any muscle magazines anytime soon, but the man looked like he could handle himself. Could he last long in an MMA fight? No. Could he do some serious damage to an attacker on the street, where fights are usually over very fast? No doubt.
     
  13. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    It depends. I remember once seeing a man so wide doing a bo-staff form at a competition, and thinking to myself how absurd he looked. However, when he did his kata, I still to this day do not think I have seen such acrobatics, at least with a bow. A roommate I have, probably most would say is overweight. But if you actually see his body, as I unfortunately have perchance, it's about half muscle, and half fat.

    Out of shape is not the same thing as fat. I have a teacher, now retired, who developed a thyroid and diabetic problem later and life. He still carries stretch marks on his arms from when he used to go to the gym for hours everyday and train. Now he has them around his stomach.

    Likewise, the individual I trained under for Moo Duk Kwan, was of olympic level. He was a terrible teacher. I recall him leaving for 12 months to learn Jiddokwan so he would better be able to spar as he grew older.

    some people have phenomenal ability, but weak body, and weaker teaching methods.

    I don't discount people necessarily because of their body skill, but I sure as heck will if their ability is weak, and insight shallow.
     
  14. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Ironic.
     
  15. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    Judging depths in others is more akin to looking at a surface. In the end, what you glean from the exchange should further you, regardless if it was positive or negative.
     
  16. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    Didn't he also have some kind of back injury?

    I know that there are elements of my own workouts that I have had to either modify or eliminate due to age and injury. Bruce was about 33 when he died. I didn't notice age in my workouts until I was over forty. My intensity is still the same, but my selection of exercises has changed. I no longer do much with weights; pushups and crunches are my only 'strength building' exercises. I do consistently practice my TKD pumse and I practice a lot of kendo and kenjutsu.

    I suspect that Bruce would have been able to maintain much of his regime into his late thirties or early forties without having to change too much of it, and probably would have been able to maintain the intensity of his workout indefinitely (look at Jhoon Rhee and his 101 push ups in less than sixty seconds at the age of 80).

    And I still admire Bruce too.:)
     
  17. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    I recall bruce lee once saying he approved of pushing and pushing oneself, even if it killed them young. I like to think that when he did die, because of his philosophy, he lived, and died as he taught and spoke. It's part of why I respect him as a Martial Artist.
     
  18. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    I am certain he would be glad to know you respect him.
     
  19. Bill Shaw

    Bill Shaw White Belt

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    Might make a difference if you're talking about a "Once Fit & now older & overweight" ... or "Never Fit."

    Anyone remember TV's Kunf-Fu Series? ... Master Po was a bit Fat, Old, and BLIND! Yet none of that negated the wisdom he had to share..

    Just a thought to share...
     
  20. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    Well... I suspect that if someone was truly fit as a martial artist, even through bodily deterioration, they are still able to do quite a bit.

    Ionno bout you, but im 22 and 5'5". Im only getting shorter at this point. I look forward to being 70, or 60, and looking like a very small, frail old man. Exactly as my grandfather does today- but it would bely the nearly 7 decades of experience I will have had.123
     

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