Will Brazilian Jiujitsu eventually replace Japanese Jujitsu?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Hanzou, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Both assertions taken way out of context.

    It's also not moving goal posts. What their form of "randori" is like was pretty much the point of that entire back and forth that you decided to jump into.

    Sorry, I missed the last time you asked;

    Tenjin Shin'yō-ryū - Wikipedia

    Particularly this quote;

     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You would need to be able to demonstrate that you can do it.

    So if I attack you with a knife. You should be able to stop me.
     
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  3. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Finding an accepted definition is pretty easy. You could just look for it in a dictionary or a dictionary website. Here's one: "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment." (Google result from Oxford Languages)
     
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  5. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well since then ive quoted both the oxford and Websters that are far less prescriptive, once you actually open them and read it, something it seems youve failed to do here
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That was the entirety of the primary definition. The others were for different usages that don't apply. But apparently you know what was on the web page I read, even though you didn't read it.
     
  7. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    My friend, there's really no point in wasting your time explaining the definition of something as elementary as sport to someone who is purposely being obtuse.
     
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  8. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Exept we find more boxing or BJJ used in the context of self defence than most other martial arts.

     
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  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    As I told Steve the other day, it's a way to pass the time.
     
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  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed. I think that - used well - those stylized drills force the practitioner to focus on specific principles. I feel like they get too much attention in some schools (and maybe entire styles), but they're just a different kind of drill. Like any drill, there can be positives and negatives. Like any drill, if they're the only way you approach a technique, your skills will be shallow, in my opinion. And like many other drills, the movements sometimes translate to situations that are barely similar, if you understand the principles.
     
  11. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    The issue is without seeing the randori it is hard to tell.

    It is like watching John wick to decide if keanu reeves can fight.
     
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  12. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    I've said many times that I believe Judo's Nage No Kata is designed to teach one or two important principles about each throw. It doesn't really matter if it looks stylized or not as long as you learn the lesson intended to be imparted. But now Nage No Kata is a competition kata, which I believe emphasizes the stylized feel and competitors too interested in the competition element could lose sight of the lesson they're supposed to learn.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed. I try to reserve my opinion on someone's overall fighting ability, rather than judge it from a video of some drill. They may be great at the drill, but bad at application of those skills to a dynamic situation with a resisting opponent. Or they may be awful at that drill, but really good at other fighting skills (like someone who is a beginner in a new system, but has meaningful background somewhere else).
     
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  14. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Exactly, which is why the randori piece is important, and I wish I could get a definitive answer without all the snark.
     
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  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I have the same belief about the Classical Forms (short 2-man kata) found in NGA. They often are viewed as the entire foundation of the system, but I think they're just meant to build (as you said) a few principles in each technique. The rest should develop in other drills, randori, etc.
     
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  16. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    here is the entire defintion from websters,

    sport
    verb
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    \ ˈspȯrt \
    sported; sporting; sports
    Definition of sport
    (Entry 1 of 3)

    intransitive verb

    1a: to amuse oneself : FROLIClambs sporting in the meadow
    b: to engage in a sport
    2a: to mock or ridicule something
    b: to speak or act in jest : TRIFLE
    3[sport entry 2] : to deviate or vary abruptly from type (as by bud variation) : MUTATE
    transitive verb

    1: to display or wear usually ostentatiously : BOASTsporting expensive new shoes
    2[sport entry 2] : to put forth as a sport or bud variation
    sport

    noun
    Definition of sport (Entry 2 of 3)

    1a: a source of diversion : RECREATION
    b: sexual play
    c(1): physical activity engaged in for pleasure
    (2): a particular activity (such as an athletic game) so engaged in
    2a: PLEASANTRY, JEST
    b: often mean-spirited jesting : MOCKERY, DERISION
    3a: something tossed or driven about in or as if in play
    b: LAUGHINGSTOCK
    4a: SPORTSMAN
    b: a person considered with respect to living up to the ideals of sportsmanshipa good sporta poor sport
    c: a companionable person
    5: an individual exhibiting a sudden deviation from type beyond the normal limits of individual variation usually as a result of mutation especially of somatic tissue
    sport

    adjective
    variants: or sports

    the primary defintion is

    1a: a source of diversion : RECREATION

    and ignoring the one about sex
    c(1): physical activity engaged in for pleasure
     
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    So, which definition fits your need?

    Or were you trying to understand how it was being used?
     
  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    It is intentionally concealed to maintain an image.

    The idea is if you can't see it you can't make a judgement on it so therefore it is good.
     
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  19. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    all of them fit my need
     
  20. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    That makes sense considering that I can find no video of randori for any of these arts, but I can find plenty of video for everything else they do.123
     

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