Will Brazilian Jiujitsu eventually replace Japanese Jujitsu?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Hanzou, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    @BrendanF this is the type of randori that would more than likely be found in that classical JJ;



    And that is nothing like Judo randori, or Bjj rolling. In fact, it is a far less reliable training tool.
     
  2. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    the outfit is a bogus point to be honest you have to wear something, if your outfit is designed for your art and you've bought it specially, then its exactly the same, you cant really wear it on a night out, most sports have uniforms, the squash club wouldn't let me play in jeans and outdoor shoes, the pool team insist on smart pants and a polo shirt, you go, you wear the uniform

    i turn up for karate in combats and a sweat shirt which i already own, which is probably false economy as i keep wrecking sweat shirts, and it would certainly be cheaper to to wear a gi, but then id have to change before i went home, so swings and roundabouts
     
  3. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    To be honest, it's fairly common, at least in Western culture. If you look at old Boxing manuals from the early 20th C. and earlier, they're quite often self-described "art of defense" manuals, using boxing. And then the manual goes on to describe boxing within the context of the rule set of the day. While some of them do include some instruction on foul and illegal techniques "wink wink nudge nudge," the gist of it was to rules-legal boxing.

    It also wasn't particularly rare to have one manual with sections on Boxing, Wrestling, and Fencing.

    [​IMG]
    Physical Culture and Self Defense
    by lklawson
    [​IMG]
    The Science of Self Defense
    by lklawson
    [​IMG]
    Fencing, Boxing, and Wrestling, 1897
    by lklawson

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  4. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Not really. The sleeve grips and collar chokes are extremely useful self defense skills picked up from utilizing the gi. I've been able to control people by simply using the sleeve grip.

    That said, No-gi is also very good because it provides training in more universal grips, and buying a rash guard and some sweat pants/shorts is far cheaper than a Bjj gi.
     
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  5. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    It's hard to tell much from "snapshots" like this. Most people will admit that Judoka have a pretty good foundation for fighting but if you look at videos of the kata they do (Nage No Kata, Ju No Kata, etc.) and see how stylized it looks, well, based on just that a lot of people would dismiss Judo pretty much out of hand.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  6. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    No you wouldn't, because it's pretty easy to find examples of Judo randori, and Judo being used in a self defense/fighting context.

    Not so much the case with classical JJ.
     
  7. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    i dont understand your point, you have a special uniform that you wear, at least sometimes for ma, that exactly the same as the people your criticising, for having a special uniform to train in.

    all sports have a uniform either by rules or by practicality, commonly both
     
  8. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    You think there are no strikes in Judo randori? hahahahahahahaha

    There's plenty of close-lining and "accidents." There's a whole meta-art of slipping in strikes that the ref will accept as normal contact. Some of my favorites are elbows and shoulders while turning in for a hip toss. And that's just when atemi is technically illegal, never mind if you find an instructor who actually teaches atemi and atemi waza.

    Son, you really need to stop. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."
     
  9. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Except Classical JJ isn't a sport.
     
  10. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    have you considered that the rarity may be because not many people do it and those that do are middle aged and so less likely to be in the sort of places anyway
     
  11. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    So the fact that you sneak in strikes either under the nose of a ref, or because your instructor wants to teach dirty stuff, or because you want to show how much of a bada$$ you are means that Judo randori has strikes? That's no different than me jamming my elbow into the neck of my partner when I enter side control or head butt someone when I go in for an ezekiel choke while in mount. Me being an *** to my training partner or a dirty competitor doesn't mean that Bjj or Judo contains strikes when rolling/randori.
     
  12. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well that really demands that you give a commonly accepted definition of sport that excludes it
     
  13. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Like Boxing and Judo?



    JNC: Boxing for Beginners: Jacomb
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  14. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Quiet son. Go sit down, the grown-ups are talking.
     
  15. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    No. It means that you don't know what you're talking about.
     
  16. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Classical JJ exponents would get pissy if you call what they do a sport.
     
  17. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Says the guy who says there's strikes in Judo randori, and in the exact same sentence says they're illegal..... :rolleyes:
     
  18. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    im not at this moment interested in your mind reading powers

    really i want you to provided a commonly accepted definition of sport that backs up your claim the cjj is not a sport
     
  19. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    I would imagine it would be because they don't compete. It's rather difficult to be considered a sport if there's no competitive aspect.
     
  20. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    And the fact that you don't understand it only proves that you don't know what you're talking about. That's the point. You are making pronouncements and blathering on about stuff that you have less than even a superficial understanding of.

    Here's a hint. You watching some youtube videos about "Japanese ju jutsu" doesn't make you an expert on the topic any more than watching porn makes a virgin an expert on sex.

    This is where you start bragging about your great exploits and conquests.123
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020

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