Why some people still don't want to wear mask?

Discussion in 'The Locker Room Bar & Grill' started by Kung Fu Wang, Aug 29, 2020.

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  1. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    but its not a fact that 2 plus two equals 4.

    ive told you that several times, but your that dim its not sinking in, if your counting in binary the answer is 0100, if your counting in base three, the answer is 11
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Hey man. Keep those personal attacks up and you're going to get this interesting thread locked.
     
  3. EdwardA

    EdwardA Green Belt

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    Sometimes it's 8/4 + 8/4 =4, but what I see a lot of, one guy will see 5 facts that agree with his position and say here are the facts, I'm right. The other guy on the opposite side sees 5 facts that supports his side and says, no I'm right. Trouble is, neither dug deep enough to find the 20 facts that make up the issue. It takes more effort and honest neutrality than either applied.

    Only those willing to set aside their own opinions can find the truth. ...and a lot of work.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    yea but he is thick as pig****, sometimes you have to bite the bullet
     
  5. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Not really. Again you are suggesting that there is an onus on experts is to convince idiots.

    Unfortunately the idiots don't make that possible.

    Sorry can you please explain a concept that took you 4 years of specialized training to understand in about ten seconds?

    I just have a really short attention span.



    So for example.

    "To come up with a proof of such a seemingly simple fact as 2+2=4" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">2+2=42+2=4, we need a set of axioms to start with, and we need precise definitions of all the terms we are using. Depending on what set of axioms you start with, proving that 2+2=4" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">2+2=42+2=4, and that no other natural number can equal 2+2" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">2+22+2 may be either very simple or surprisingly difficult. For example in Russell and Whitehead's Principia, it famously took over 300 pages of work before they could prove that 1+1=2" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">1+1=21+1=2. They started with a very sparse set of axioms though.

    The most common set of axioms for the natural numbers are the Peano Axioms.

    They are

    1. 0" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">00 is a natural number.
    2. For every natural number x" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">xx, x=x" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">x=xx=x.
    3. For all natural numbers x" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">xx and y" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">yy, if x=y" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">x=yx=y, then y=x" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">y=xy=x.
    4. For all natural numbers x" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">xx, y" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">yy, and z" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">zz, if x=y" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">x=yx=y and y=z" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">y=zy=z, then x=z" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">x=zx=z.
    5. For all a" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">aa and b" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">bb, if a" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">aa is a natural number, and a=b" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">a=ba=b, then b" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">bb is a natural number.
    6. For every natural number n" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">nn, S(n)" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">S(n)S(n) is a natural number.
    7. For every natural number n" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">nn, S(n)=0" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">S(n)=0S(n)=0 is false.
    8. For all natural numbers m" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">mm and n" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">nn, if S(m)=S(n)" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">S(m)=S(n)S(m)=S(n) then m=n" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">m=nm=n.
    9. If K" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">KK is a set such that 0∈K" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">0∈K0∈K, and for every natural number n" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">nn, n∈K" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">n∈Kn∈K implies that S(n)∈K" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">S(n)∈KS(n)∈K, then K" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">KK contains all natural numbers.
    Here S" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">SS is the successor function, it takes each natural number to its successor. This might seem like a complicated mess compared to the simplicity of natural numbers, but we need to be precise. We need to carefully construct the axioms so that no contradiction can be derived from them, and so they encapsulate what we understand to be the natural numbers. We want to be able to prove interesting statements about the natural numbers from them. Note that the axioms contain undefined terms. The axioms don't need to state what the terms mean, only what they do.

    The following definitions are commonly used within this axiomatization. They are the definitions from Peano's original paper (An English translation is available in the book From Frege to Gödel), modified to start at 0" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">00 instead of 1" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">11.

    1" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">11 is defined as S(0)" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">S(0)S(0), 2" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">22 is defined as S(1)" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">S(1)S(1), 3" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">33 is defined as S(2)" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">S(2)S(2), and 4" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">44 is defined as S(3)" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">S(3)S(3). Addition is defined recursively as follows.


    a+0=a" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; font-size: 15px; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">a+0=aa+0=a
    a+S(b)=S(a+b)" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; font-size: 15px; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">a+S(b)=S(a+b)a+S(b)=S(a+b)
    .


    Thus


    2+2=2+S(1)=S(2+1)=S(2+S(0))=S(S(2+0))=S(S(2))=S(3)=4" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; font-size: 15px; vertical-align: baseline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative; display: table-cell !important; width: 10000em !important;">2+2=2+S(1)=S(2+1)=S(2+S(0))=S(S(2+0))=S(S(2))=S(3)=42+2=2+S(1)=S(2+1)=S(2+S(0))=S(S(2+0))=S(S(2))=S(3)=4


    proving that 2+2=4" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">2+2=42+2=4.

    This is the unique value of 2+2" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">2+22+2 by axiom 4.

    If x=2+2" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">x=2+2x=2+2 and 2+2=4" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">2+2=42+2=4, then x=4" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: normal; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; word-spacing: normal; overflow-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; position: relative;">x=4x=4."
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
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  6. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    no its the job of govenments to carry the bulk of the population with them.

    if people idiots or otherwise dont belive what a govenment tells them, then at best they dont get relected at worsr you get a compkete breakdown in civil order, or anywhere in between, thats the nature of democracy, you dont need to believe what the govenment tells you

    the govenment need to lead, if no one follows it tends to end badly
     
  7. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    My wife is an attorney. She busted a gut when I showed that one. It would be nice if the world was that concrete. Boring but much better.
     
  8. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    can you get her to tell him you need to be convicted before you get fined, if indeed you get caught at all
     
  9. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Yeah. What can I say. I could have gone into more specifics and exceptions. That just seemed too complicated. Law is already complex enough as it is. I try to keep it as simple as possible. There's a disagreement on 2+2=4, so I fear being more accurate about a discussion on law would be too much lol.

    Tell your wife that I suffered 2 years of law classes with an attorney and I hated every minute of it. Every answer my professor had was a legal one and it was like she didn't have feelings. She was just straight to the point and very detailed. If the students had to give a definition or explain a case and the ruling (hated that too) then nothing less than detailed answer was accepted. It was like 2 years of being wrong, assumptions weren't allowed, emotions weren't allowed. So I'm happy that she could have to good chuckle.
     
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  10. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    "can you get her to tell him you need to be convicted before you get fined, if indeed you get caught at al" So Jobo just posted this, and I can already here my law professor lol.

    • what are the laws of the where it occurred? Sate? City? Country? What was the offense? How does the jurisdiction view the offense? what is the classification of it?. Is it criminal or civil?
    Then everything after that would be. - nope you got that wrong or not always, or according to legal statues, rulings, and a lot of other stuff that would just make me say. Yeah. you hand that stuff. Only if you want, because I can't pay you lol.

    The first lesson of my legal education was to never start an argument with " Can you (the legal expert) tell (some other person) that A has to happen before B happens" that an never get into and argument with a lawyer about law. lol.
     
  11. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    It would be nice then I could argue with a lawyer lol. But unfortunately simple doesn't cover all necessary aspect of a law. Make a simple law and the next thing that happens are "What abouts?" and "What ifs" It's like a building a car with a person with never ending ideas of "wouldn't it be cool if we added..."
     
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  12. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Ladies & Gentlemen,
    We have several open tickets on this thread. I've locked it so that I can go through it with a fine tooth comb. As a reminder, before I've had a chance to do more than glance over things... Political posting should go to US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum. And let's remember a few old rules for life:
    • If you can't say something nice, don't say anything.
    • If people are thinking you're foolish, why open your mouth and prove it?

    The bottom line is that the current pandemic, and responses to it, are huge topics, with tons of opinions and even more emotional energy invested. Solid data is hard to find, and it's even harder to get people to think rationally, whichever side of the debate they are on, or whatever their opinion may be. Let's try to keep the discussions here civil and polite. While many might feel differently, it is possible to disagree with a person, and still treat them with respect and courtesy.

    jks9199
    MT Administrator
     
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  14. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    All right, folks...

    After a review, consider this a final warning. No more personal attacks. Keep the discussion courteous and polite. Much to my pleased amazement, y'all have done a decent job ducking politics. Keep that up.

    NO MORE PERSONAL ATTACKS. Anyone making what the Moderation Team identifies as a personal attack will get points from this post on.

    jks9199
    MT Administrator

    And -- just in case I'm unclear:
    NO MORE PERSONAL ATTACKS!!
     
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  15. EdwardA

    EdwardA Green Belt

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    They unlocked this?

    You can argue a point without pinning your disagreement on any one person. That's what I try...

    At least most of us enjoyed ping pong. I'm pobably not any good at it any more. I was really good at pool once too. Then after a while, I lost the touch. Maybe I just got bored with both.

    That's one thing I like about MA, there's many many things to train at.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
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  16. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Senior Master

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    MT... yeah....


    You are my fire
    The one desire
    Believe when I say
    I want it that way

    But we are two worlds apart
    Can't reach to your heart
    When you say
    That I want it that way

    Tell me why
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache
    Tell me why
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake
    Tell me why
    I never want to hear you say
    I want it that way

    Am I, your fire?
    Your one, desire
    Yes I know, it's too late
    But I want it that way

    Tell me why
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache
    Tell me why
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake
    Tell me why,
    I never want to hear you say
    I want it that way

    Now I can see that we've fallen apart
    From the way that it used to be, yeah
    No matter the distance
    I want you to know
    That deep down inside of me

    You are my fire
    The one desire
    You are (you are, you are, you are)

    Don't want to hear you say
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake
    (Don't want to hear you say)
    I never want to hear you say
    I want it that way

    Tell me why
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache
    Tell me why
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake
    Tell me why
    I never want to hear you say
    I want it that way

    Tell me why
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake
    Tell me why
    I never want to hear you say
    (Never want to hear you say it)
    I want it that way

    'Cause I want it that way
     
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  17. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    But the way the other way of looking at the 2+2=4 buisness is to use scientific method. Sort of. So you would conduct a series of experiments and if they corroborate each other then we can be fairly confident with an answer.

    So we could look at
    1+1+1+1=4
    1+1=2
    2+1+1=4
    1+1+1+1=1+1+1+1.

    And so on. And finding all this consistency we can conclude 2+2=4.

    This is also the MMA for self defense argument.

    Now go wear a mask. Or do MMA.
     
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  18. EdwardA

    EdwardA Green Belt

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    If it's law or required by the business where you are, wear one, if it's not, it's your choice no matter what anybody says.

    √16 does too or (16/4 + 16/4)/2. Unlimited combos.

    Just the other day, Fauci changed his mind again and said masks weren't very effective and that we should all be wearing full face shields. Who here is going to get one?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  19. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Senior Master

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    Ah what.. flip floppin, I actually like the idea of face shields, can actually see people's face and their expression, AND much easier to clean!
     
  20. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well that doesnt prove anything, it totally dependent on the coubrobg system you use

    growing up we use based 12 for money and distance and base 16 for weight,

    the americand still do for weight and distance

    in base two its 0100, in base 3 its 11, in base 4 its 10. in base 16 its one quarter or .25 as well as 4, but all answers are correct unless the question specifies which units should be used for the answer

    it only becomes a fact if you prefix it with "" in the base 10 system"

    so as i said that fact is total dependent on interpretation123
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
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