Why is their so much disrespect for Karate? And what can we do to stop it?

Discussion in 'Japanese Martial Arts - General' started by Manwithquestions, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. sinthetik_mistik

    sinthetik_mistik Purple Belt

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    yep, no martial art is perfect. different martial arts work better for different people. i strongly believe in the mentality that one martial art is not superior to another
     
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  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Two blue belts and one white against the boxing instructor. Level of skill wins.
     
  3. Mountie

    Mountie Yellow Belt

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    Absolutely, and good for them for testing themselves like this.

    The point there was for people who say BJJ will totally dominate a striking style, especially the couch/online warriors who watched UFC 93 and think they now know everything about fighting. BJJ can do well, but you have to train/test yourself and round out your game somewhat.
     
  4. donald1

    donald1 Senior Master

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    The best thing you can do is keep training, ignore their ignorance because the effectiveness of your style will become more evident. If they still can't see the effectiveness of it that's their problem, but it doesn't really matter because a lot of people already know it's effective. A couple goofballs won't change that.
     
  5. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I never met Royce, [although I believe he's going to be on island next week] but from what I've seen of him over the years he seriously lacks social skills, language and communication skills, too.

    As for other members of the Gracie family my experiences have been the opposite of what's been mentioned. They are humble, quiet, friendly and would never, and I mean never, speak badly about another Martial Art. I've been with some of them at seminars, trained at their schools, even been in their home, it's just not something they do.

    As for BJJ students spouting off about other arts, I really haven't seen or heard that either. I'm not doubting what you guys have said, not at all, I just haven't seen or heard it. Now, if you're talking about white belts, which there always seems to be more of than any other rank, that's a different story. A six month white belt can be like an egotistical cannibal....just completely full of himself. But white belts in any art are somewhere between a carrot and a parrot on the intelligence scale, and somewhere between a rookie security guard and a politician on the full of you-know-what scale. [no offense intended to carrots and parrots]

    As for any art being perfect, ain't no such thing.....other than, you know, Sinanju and Ameri-Do-Te.
     
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  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't know any of the Gracies, and really don't even know enough about them to separate the messages from them. I do know that the ones I've seen doing instructional videos seem to be nice, and I've never heard any of those say anything that wasn't kind or at least constructive. I do know there was a period where "the Gracies" (generically - not sure which were involved) spent some energy showing up folks in other arts through challenges. I think that period contributed to the smack talking mentioned.
     
  7. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    There was a whole hell of a lot of hype early on when the Gracies were beginning to make a name for themselves, around the first few UFCs. How much of it was marketing, how much of it was "new converts" who were dismayed by the failures of their own arts against the Gracies in the UFC events... don't know.

    All in all, BJJ is a solid system, and there is a lot more to it than the sport side most commonly seen. I know several BJJ instructors who are frustrated that so many are focusing on the sport side and neglecting the practical self defense aspects.

    In the end, though, there's no one ultimate system. (Sinanju excepted... but I lack enough gold to get the attention of a certain little Korean...) It all comes down to how you train, and what your goals and desires are. There are people out there who could make patty-cake deadly dangerous...
     
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  8. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Indeed, even if it's only a training drill.

     
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  9. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I think you're right. The Gracie challenge thing dates back to their Vale Tudo days. You know how a lot of young Brazilian guys are.

    MachoBrazilCrop.jpeg

    Then, when Rorian Gracie first came state side, he issued challenges to everyone, and filmed them. As....what's the word I'm looking for, obnoxious? Over the top? Presumptuous? I don't know, but it was one hell of a great marketing idea. Worked like a son of a gun, it did.

    Soon, everyone in the L.A area knew where his school was, and what it was like as a fighting system.

    Not the way I would do things, but I certainly didn't have the talent and skills sets to do so, so what I would have maybe done doesn't amount to a hill of refried beans.
     
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  10. Mountie

    Mountie Yellow Belt

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    I actually like that BJJ practitioners went around the world and challenged other styles. It's how it learned and grew so well while martial arts like karate stagnated.

    Karate masters used to do the same thing, travelling around Asia and learning different martial arts to incorporate into their style.
     
  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, I definitely like that side of it - it provided a wake-up to stagnating schools (at least, I perceive them as having done that). It was the rhetoric around it, and some of the attitude of it.
     
  12. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Some places in every style stagnate, not all karateka do though.
     
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  13. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    either flaunt it and be proud of what you do or don't volunteer information about yourself to strangers. Or a bit of both.

    friends know you in contex and will make judgments about you through knowing you. Strangers will just run stereo types and quiet possibly take the mickey. But then they might do much the same if you told them you did figure skating, crown green bowling, or ball room dancing, which are all excellent pursuits that have,an image problem.

    i personally don't tell strangers i do karate, as i cant be bothered to have the follow up conversation. Where you can find yourself trying to justify your sport, to people who opinions are of no value to me. Just tell them you " work out" if you feel obliged to answer at all
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  14. Mountie

    Mountie Yellow Belt

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    I agree. Most of the people I'd consider to be martial arts masters have a karate background mixed with other styles. I love karate as a style, but I know enough of it's history to be wary of the accursed "McDojo".

    Karate and Tae Kwon Do were the popular names decades ago. These days, "MMA". Some schools are great, others have instructors who should be be teaching. But that's a whole different rant.
     
  15. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    The history of karate where though? The history is different in North America to Europe though where we have less of the McDojo and vey little of the childcare culture that exists in North America. The people who brought Japanese martial arts to us are different from the ones who brought it back especially to the US. We had Japanese instructors who travelled to the UK and Europe to bring us karate and Judo not returning servicemen with incomplete knowledge. In my style of karate there is a vibrant community not a stagnant one, I also train, coach, judge, ref and corner MMA and have done for nearly 20 years now ( I'm shuddering at that because the time has gone so quickly, it's over 40 years since I started martial arts)
    Most karate and in fact not just that is trained in church and village halls, sports and leisure centres as well as schools after hours so it retains that grass roots flavour.
     
  16. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    There's a few McDojos ;)

    I've not seen anything of the childcare martial arts club though - I suppose it must exist, but has much less of a foothold...
     
  17. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I did say less of the Mcdojos not that there weren't any. We don't have the childcare culture because if you look after children here you have to meet Ofsted standards and inspections as well as be qualified in childcare, even childminders have to be these days.
     
  18. Mountie

    Mountie Yellow Belt

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    I'm not looking to insult karate. I love karate, used to train in it and still want to go back and round out that training. In its complete form it's one of the most well rounded martial arts.

    I also love history and am currently studying karate history, mainly from Okinawa to Japan to North America. I haven't read its history in England. but now that I think of it a lot of the bunkai experts I've been learning from are from England so maybe I should give that a closer look. If you have any articles/books to recommend, let me know.

    From what I've read so far, and I may be wrong because I'm not an expert, when karate went to Japan the JKF stripped out parts that overlapped with judo and aikido, turning it from a well rounded art into a striking art. Karate spread from there. Came to Canada in the 30s and the US in the 50s, as you said from servicemen or people who went overseas, got a shodan then returned. It's debatable how many of them were actually taught the complete art, both from the time they spend and Japan's relations with foreigners at the time, but I haven't explored that in detail.

    The "McDojo" phase came in the 80s and early 90s when karate was the popular martial art. It was Kung Fu during Bruce Lee's time; what you slap on a dojo sign to get the most students. It doesn't mean the art is bad, or even that a lot of the dojos were bad, just some instructors which resulted in it getting watered down further.

    I think we're seeing a return to form from karate practitioners today. The bandwagon group has gone to other arts and only the dedicated remain. Fighters with karate bases, even in competition are showing impressive footwork, distance and timing. One of the reasons I'm thinking about returning to it to aid my current JJJ training. I'm good up close but it's tough getting near someone who knows their striking. Karate mixes with that quite well.
     
  19. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    It does strike me as being a bit sociopathic, tho. Perhaps a bit of sociopathy is what it takes if you want to really make a name for yourself in modern martial arts. I dunno. Honestly, it’s a turn-off for me, the notion that someone is driven to prove everyone else inferior.
     
  20. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I remember one of the Gracie’s (maybe Royce?) had printed a column in Black Belt magazine where he publically challenged Mike Tyson to a match. He was very arrogant in how he presented it. This was in the mid-late 1990s. It was a real turn-off for me, soured me to the very notion of studying with them.
     

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